To want DS to go to the best university?

[Oilrigger]

DS now has five offers from universities: three Russell Group, one a well-regarded uni but not RG and one a newer university (former poly years ago) offering him BBC (he is predicted AAB). The courses are pretty similar at all five unis (can't go into more detail because he would be furious if he found out I was posting on MN!).

He is adamant that he wants to go to the former poly because he likes it the most. He also reasons that he will have a more enjoyable and less pressurised time there and that he is more likely to get a good class of degree (2.1 or 1st) from the ex-poly - rather than a 2.2 from a Russell Group uni that he just scrapes into. So he is going to firm the ex-poly (he won't have/need an insurance as it is his lowest offer).

AIBU to want him to firm one of the more prestigious Russell Group unis and insure the former poly? DH says I am as it is DS' decision and he's the one who will be going to uni.

His choice. I made the mistake of manipulating my kids choice of secondary schools and it didn’t go well. If you push him into it and he doesn’t enjoy it, he will blame you.

Things have moved on with many more firms using cv blind recruitment including law firms and chambers. Firms have realised that a diverse workforce is better for their employees and business.

The uk needs more taking MFL and not less. In my opinion taking a foreign language should be compulsory at GCSE. I was at my parents in Brussels last weekend and the number of British visitors only speaking English was appalling - very lazy.

https://www.thefuturescentre.org/signal/ernst-young-will-no-longer-require-new-hires-to-have-a-degree/

Looks like things are changing and exam success in your degree doesn’t necessarily mean you will be a successful employee.

The Russell Group are self selected - I wonder how many mumsnet people really know that?

There is zero independent verification of their worth. The Top 10/100 university at least have objective criteria.

@purplehair1 Your kids' choice of secondary school? Surely at 11 year's old guidance cannot be considered manipulation?

Sorry I meant those with a very high number of privately educated students compared to the proportion of children who are privately educated in the U.K. It's been hovering about 60% at oxbridge for years but as you know, that is changing.

@Parker231 - they really have and I'm really starting to see the impact in the graduate intake. Very pleasing.

Late to this party. Old polys? I thought that was an outdated term 20 years ago when I was choosing where to go to uni!
You need to let him choose OP.
Just to play devils advocate here, I do cell engineering/culture in a similar vein to what a pp described and I went to an 'old poly'. I'm not the boss or anything, but it's a great job that pays pretty well. I don't think anyone I work with went to RG universities except the CEO.
Lots of my friends went to old polys and had an amazing time and all have careers they enjoy.
Admittedly I do know someone who went to RG who now earns mega bucks, but it was a long hard slog and instead of having a 'regular uni experience ' he had to go to networking events to meet future employers regularly.
I suppose it depends what is important to you. Mega bucks and an academic career? Maybe RG.
To enjoy uni life and get a good degree? Non RG.

Some misleading advice on here. Yes lots of employers hide location. A fuck Ton more don’t and the big prestigious companies include it, and it’s important, because as everyone points out, it’s far harder to get a first at a top ranking uni than it is to get one at a lower ranked one. The amount of self teaching, even the course content itself can be very different.

even if they do hide they can tell, from your a level results to the questions they ask.

bery misleading to pretend it doesn’t matter. For most it very much does.

So I have a bit of experience here to share which might help.

I originally went to a RG university, but I struggled with various personal factors - being away from home/elitism/social anxiety and ended up dropping out.

I then enrolled in a less prestigious uni which was close to home, and finished my degree. The workload and pressure was less, and this definitely helped.

I then went on to do a MSc and a PhD at a RG university.

For me, the social environment, the course content, and being able to study from home were the most important factors for my undergrad.

However, when I completed further studies at a RG uni, I noticed the difference in quality of teaching and opportunities available. I also found when looking for jobs (unfortunately) RG uni's are regarded as more appealing.

I think ultimately having a positive uni experience reduces the risks of dropping out etc and for me going to a less prestigious uni didn't affect my career overall, but long term, thinking about employment, RG uni's do give one an advantage. It's a bit of a rock and a hard place decision!

What big prestigious companies? Do you work in graduate recruitment?

Absolutely - DC1 and I are both graduates of RC unis in MFL, and the attitude to learning languages in the UK is appalling. At my kids' school, @Parker231, a languages GCSE is mandatory, the same way as a Science is.

People complain, for example, about the attitudes of Parisians. I got lost once at the Trocadero trying to get to Orly airport (I have a crap sense of direction!). There was a tour bus nearby so I approached it and politely asked the staff in French where I needed to go. They basically told me to hop on, as they were driving round that way anyway and they dropped me off where I needed to be. I am quite sure they wouldn't have done me the favour if I hadn't made the effort to speak to them in their own language.

I have O levels in French, Spanish, German and Latin, so it's one of my hobby horses!

I find it quite strange that so many highly educated and intelligent people see the mark of success as a job in the City earning £200k plus. There are so many other careers for kids to choose, which are rewarding from a financial, emotional or creative standpoint. And have different routes to get there.

My elderly parents in the 80s thought the only decent careers were Law, Medicine and Engineering, with backup professions in Dentistry and Pharmacy. I thought people nowadays realised that there is far more out there. Clearly not.

Thank you for the clarification.
It's sad, isn't it. People campaigned for years to get more State-schooled pupils into Oxbridge and then, when it finally happens, employers decide to go for University-blind recruitment.

It's really not @senua. Shouldn't spending three years in a beautiful institution with amazing facilities and getting an astounding education enough of a prize in itself?

My DD is in her 1st year at Surrey Uni. they wanted BBC for her Chemistry course. She could have gone to Warwick but preferred Surrey. Warwick wanted AAB . she actually got 3 x A* . She is doing really well at Surrey & gets good marks in her exams & she's happy. I'm not saying your opinion is parent snobbery but I know loads of people who really heavily influenced their kids decisions to go to the top Unis. It's my DD life & she can obviously study where she wants. Am really pleased she chose that Uni. She preferred aspects of the course - they offered modules in Forensic Investigation & none of the other Unis did. Good luck to your son with his exams & with his decision 👏 oh & one lad on my DD course did a few weeks at Oxford & hated it & swapped to Surrey so.......

CV blind recruitment is good - limits types of preconceived ideas or discrimination based on gender, ethnicity and background.
My DT’s are obviously not English from their names, they went to an international school and RGUni’s. This information should give them any positive or negative chances when applying for their graduate roles. They should be competing for roles based on their ability only and not where they went to school or Uni.

Shouldn’t not should!

Surrey is suddenly really popular!

@Stugs I know! Such a pretty campus though & Guildford is a lovely place & walkable from campus. A train station is practically on campus too. I loved it the first time we visited so I was secretly v pleased when my DD put it first 👏 only a 45/50 min drive away too which is perfect for our introverted/social anxious DD and she is THRIVING there tbh.

The attitude of some of the posters on here are depressing and so out of date by only wanting to employ graduates from the same "old boys club" as they don't want anyone who is "not our class darling".

I thought we had left this behind in the last century.

This is why I pin my hopes on cv blind recruitment so unconscious bias doesn’t impact who gets the graduate jobs.

It’s great not to care about financial outcomes if you think Dc will live in a cheap area. If you think they will live and work in an expensive area and want a bit of spending money, salary will matter.

As for saying RG is self selected and doesn’t matter because there’s no research- there has been @AutumnLeaves23 . The IFS said very clearly that RG students earn more. However it doesn’t apply to all. There’s elite RG who skew the stats because their grads do a lot better, eg Oxbridge, LSE. There’s also the few like St Andrews, Bath and Lancaster who haven’t joined but are of course superb. Many of the others are great for some subjects but choose wisely. Post 92 great for vocational courses.

Often it makes less difference for science subjects. Scientists get jobs. Much more difficult for English grads to earn the same or even get a graduate position. You can say the same for film, politics, history, MFL, international relations, criminology, psychology and loads more. If you actually need a career, it’s worth thinking about where you go and what you study.

It’s great not to care about financial outcomes if you think Dc will live in a cheap area. If you think they will live and work in an expensive area and want a bit of spending money, salary will matter.

Of course salary matters. No-one wants to work for peanuts. However, no-one wants a job that they are so unhappy in even though they might be earning £200k.

DD has a STEM degree from an RG university and wants to work either in healthcare or health related research. It won't earn her £200k, but she will be happy, and she will earn enough to have the lifestyle she wants and enjoys. She has no wish to live in London.

I do wonder... how many people want to work in London and so need to earn a high salary, as opposed to wanting a high salary and so moving to London? (I'm sure that there are some of both!)