Very rich parents

[jennybrightcandle]

I honestly don’t know if I’m being unreasonable here or not. I may be a terrible person and am willing to be told so if that is the case.

When I was growing up, my parents had a fairly average income. I had a fairly “normal” upbringing: 3 bed semi, camping holidays, state schools etc. However, over time, my parents have become very rich. Partly luck of course, but also a lot of very hard work.

They are now in a position where they can go on multiple holidays a year (they’ve just booked two cruises for this summer, for example). They own two properties outright (one they live in, one they rent out). They are fairly open about their finances and so I know that as well as claiming a final salary pension, my dad is also still bringing in around 100k a year in investments and consultancy work. They have told me that they have full holdings in premium bonds etc etc.

We are fairly typical of our generation in that we both work full time in order to pay our mortgage. Neither of us particularly enjoy our jobs but we can’t career change or reduce hours as we need the money. We haven’t been on holiday overseas since 2015. We are doing fine and not on the breadline, but things are tight. We don’t currently have any savings although hopefully that will change soon as our youngest will be starting school (previously we were paying around 18k a year on childcare!!)

This is where it gets a bit embarrassing but am I being totally unreasonable to think our parents could maybe…help us out a bit?! I mean, I look at some of my peers who have had significant parental help towards buying a house or free childcare etc. And I just find it a bit odd that they haven’t thought to do the same.

I know I shouldn’t expect it and that they have no obligation whatsoever to provide anything now that I’ve left home but I just find it kind of hurtful. They have so much money and we live fairly hand to mouth each month. I honestly can’t imagine being like this with my own children and plan to help them out as much as I can.

So…am I being horribly unreasonable, materialistic and grasping 😬?

Yes for sure, some people don’t work hard or are fundamentally unsuccessful and bitter about the success and wealth of others.

But the bank of mum and dad is the biggest lender eh. OPs parents don’t have to give her much just to take the edge off for her, maybe they can’t max out both their ISAs for one year and have to put in a measly £30K between them. The return is that their child can sleep at night

OP you sound rather half empty, you’re 35, you are married, have DC, a home you’ve bought, a job, healthy parents, 80k per year joint salary. That’s a lot to be thankful for.

Hmmmm. Yes. Not sure it's usually demonstrated by enjoying luxuries while people you purportedly love are stressed and exhausted and worried about money and you could easily take those problems away without any negative impact whatsoever on your own life. 🤣

Well what a stretch that is.

How is OP struggling. She can afford holidays just not foreign?

She can't afford to work part -time?

I mean you'd think the way you are going on she couldn't afford to eat or clothe her kids or something. But no.

Very soon she's going to have an additional £18k per year that she's not going to have to spend on childcare costs. Which can fund the lifestyle she thinks she's entitled to.

She's hardly piss poor is she? She just resents her parents and thinks they should pay for her to have better things.

I mean when does it end? When she can afford a 2 week holiday abroad will she be moaning that if they helped her she could have a 3 week holiday?

I haven't voted, but I've read the OPs posts, and being quite close to her parents in age (if not in wealth, though far from impoverished) I think they are probably rather proud of you for making good progress at standing on your own feet.

If I may throw a few thoughts into the conversation, don't forget that your parents won't always have your DF's consultancy income, and that they may well need care for their last years. On our experience of DMIL's three years in residential care, it soaks up a lot of money alarmingly fast... £50k in her last year, so in the worst situation, it could easily hit £100k pa apiece.

That said, I do feel they are being a bit tight with the spondulicks: clearly they could well afford to treat you all to a lovely holiday, and it would be kind to gift you money in an emergency, if your boiler blew up, the car needed replacing, or you needed extra help for medical care or educational needs. But as soon as your youngest no longer costs you £18k in childcare, your finances will improve rapidly while working full time will have kept your career on the front foot and at 35, you have yet to discover that your peak earning days are likely to be those from 40 to 60, so you have time on your side. I hope you won't let this sour your relationship with your parents.

*It's because I can afford it and want to.

I certainly don't think my parents loved me less because they didn't fund my wedding or give me a shit load of cash to put towards a mortgage. What an odd thing to think.*

I'm not talking about your parents. I'm talking about what you are giving your kids.

I'm not sure it's an indicator of love as such. I don't think spending money on a person is an indicator that you love them more. Love is shown in a multitude of ways.

Of course.

But it indicates something. Even if you can't get yourself to actually admit it. 😄

Also something in this point that those from wealthy backgrounds don't behave like that. And people who have always had little don't behave like that: both tend to be extremely generous to family and children in particular, with whatever they can. This seems to be specific mainly to a group of people who grew up relatively poor, lived a working life that coincided with the most favourable economic conditions ever known, and have somehow become as a result very possessive about money and lack any generosity of sense that the whole point of having better circumstances is to spread them to family, a view not shared (again, big generalisations but certainly the trend is there) by most of the people poorer or richer than them, or by people older of younger than them, or by people elsewhere on Earth. It's a very interesting phenomenon, this Smaug-like "it's mine until I die on the heap of gold" idea.

As I say not like this in my family at all, and really feel for the people whose families are like this. Strange they can live with the logical disconnect between claiming they love their families then choosing to let them struggle. But I do think it is interesting from a sociological perspective because it is by no means a natural human instinct to view family relationships in such a way.

Where has she said she can't sleep at night?
Honestly stop making things up
Can't get over someone earning 80K thinking they are hard done by !

Can't get over someone earning 80K thinking they are hard done by !

Well at least you'll re not one of those claiming OP's parents are just getting by. 😄

YANBU OP.

My PIL helped us out with a house deposit, not loads but it got us on the ladder. Rents have gone up so much since, I dread to think how we would be coping if we were still renting.
I regularly tell them how they changed our lives with that help, and how that will enable us to hopefully help our children in a similar way as we can now save money since our mortgage is less than rent would be, plus the house is gaining equity.
I know PIL get real satisfaction from how much their help has been appreciated.

I don't understand parents who wouldn't do this if they could and can understand feeling hurt when you know they have spare money.

Can't get over someone earning 80K thinking they are hard done by !

Oh dear, there's always someone who wantsto begin a "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch.

In some parts of the country you'll be extremelyhard pushed to provide for children and pay a large mortgage required to live there to maintain those job and pay childcare etc on those salaries. Not to mention how much of that will go on tax!! Taxes were much, much lower for Boomers as well.

And simultaneously we have people claiming that OP's parents are not rich, with no mortgage or childcare expenses and an estimated £220k income plus rental income plus zero commuting costs etc.

Again, the cognitive dissonance is huge.

The amounts are not really that relevant for me in the issue I am interested in, which is that these people are happy for OP's family and her grandchildren to be significantly, proportionately, much much poorer than them when they could actually afford to pay off a large chunk of her mortgage (also preserving that money as a family asset to be passed down later to DGC) and still easily afford their lifestyle of multiple holidays per year, private healthcare etc. While improving their child and her children's circumstances and making the family as a whole therefore much better off in perpetuity, giving their child and DGC an easier and better life, wasting far less money than they would keeping everything then paying huge tax bills. Why would anybody choose not to do that? You'd have to have a very strange mentality to think that was a good idea.

‘Not being able to sleep at night’ is a figure of speech. In this context if OPs boiler exploded she would be fucked. If her parents gave her a sliver of their annual income of over £200K as a one off she wouldn’t be fucked.

@TheyAreMadeOutOfMeat articulated the point better

OP do they ever treat you at all? I mean apart from standard Christmas & birthday presents. My dad did not have anywhere near the salary or pension your parents have but he would do things like send me money to have a meal out when we were going on holidays (self catering mobile home!)

If they don’t ever treat you at all that does seem strange.

Owning someone’s house doesn’t exempt you from IHT.

My parents were pretty wealthy and never helped me out at all. I never expected them to, or asked. It’s one of the things I’m most grateful to them for. They forced me to stand on my own two feet and be an adult. The late Anita Roddick left her children nothing when she passed away. To her mind her children had the best of education and deserved to make a success of their lives in their own right … I admire that. My DCs are only teens and I wonder how I will feel when the time comes. I know that I will always willingly pay for their education, but expect results. After that I’m not sure.

My parents have enough money to help us but have never helped financially whereas my grandparents are constantly giving money to all of the grandchildren including me and also gave us 15k towards our deposit a few years ago. It’s two different mindsets I think. My parents worked their way from nothing and sometimes it feels like they are happy to watch us struggle because they struggled if that makes sense. Grandparents just constantly want to gift money (weddings, graduations etc) they probably have less money than my parents if I had to guess. I’ve waited to 34 years old to have a baby although been with my husband 8 years trying to ensure we have a house and little debt. Still don’t have much, life is just ridiculously expensive, and getting worse and it sucks. We also haven’t been on a holiday since 2015!

Oh come on!
Are we supposed to think they are on the breadline on 80K.
Get a bloody grip!
Move somewhere else then, make different choices.
Op herself has said very shortly that she will be 1.5K better off a month.
That's some people's salary let alone disposable income.
Cognitive dissonance my arse!

Your parents are well off but they’re not ‘very rich’. I agree they could help you more but perhaps they don’t realise the need.
My parents are hard up, I’ve been helping them financially since I started work.

Yes people like that, celebrities who became well off but didn't grow up that way, fit exactly the pattern I was describing. This idea they often have that children should suffer and be poorer than necessary because it's good for them". Somebody earlier mentioned another one, Jackie Chan maybe? Lots of them have this view. Sort of makes sense if you have extreme wealth. Some people in that situation - I think Peter Jones for example - will double or triple what his child earns (more if they are in a lower paid but socially useful profession). So there is still a way to make sure your child and their children in turn benefit from the family wealth but encourage them do work of course. That makes more sense.

In the OP's situation though her parents could - for example - sell the rental property they own outright (renting out a property is a huge hassle and not very lucrative anyway, and probably too much for someone to manage as they approach real old age even with letting agents as may well get ripped off) and use the proceeds to pay off a big chunk of all children's mortgages. This would leave them with millions in investments, a fully owned home worth £800k, final salary pensions worth £100k a year, state pensions paying £20k per year and the interest on their investments as well as any drawdown, so perhaps another £50k per year plus all of the money they have in ISAs which can obviously be accessed tax free, even when her father stops doing his consultancy work. It would have no impact on their lifestyle, whatsoever. And would make a potentially huge difference to the circumstances of their children and grandchildren not just now but a compounding amount over their lifetime because they can stop wasting money on mortgage interest and save, for their own DC, to do the same...

I find it a bit mad that in those circumstances anybody would choose NOT to do that. It's not the OP being grabby, it's her parents, who don't seem to have any grasp at all of the concept of family wealth or the point of it! They think it is about cruises. 🫣🤦🏻‍♀️

Are we supposed to think they are on the breadline on 80K.
Get a bloody grip!
Move somewhere else then, make different choices.
Op herself has said very shortly that she will be 1.5K better off a month.
That's some people's salary let alone disposable income.
Cognitive dissonance my arse!

Move somewhere else! Make different choices!

Like it's all so easy! 😂

Voted YANBU, they sound very ungenerous, they have plenty of disposable income why not use it to treat their family, many grandparents do and I definitely would.

To get an £80k defined benefit pension you would need a pretty high final salary and a lot of years in the scheme. It would be quite unusual - particularly since it sounds as though he left work a few years before normal retirement age. Unless your dad worked at a high level in the public sector, or a senior job in a corporate with long service, it’s an unusually large final salary pension.

Oh come on!
Are we supposed to think they are on the breadline on 80K.
Get a bloody grip!
Move somewhere else then, make different choices.
Op herself has said very shortly that she will be 1.5K better off a month.
That's some people's salary let alone disposable income.
Cognitive dissonance my arse!

Oh for goodness sake. Are people really this clueless about living costs in different parts of the country?

£80k if both people earn the same is £5k per month net of tax. Easily £2-2.5k for a basic family home in many areas. £1k being very conservative for utilities, council tax, house insurance, car maintenance, car insurance, basic internet and phones etc. It only works out at £5k with two people earning, otherwise it's less. So we need two commuting costs in there. That can easily be another £1k per month for two people. Often more. If you want to live closer to work you can cut that down but then your mortgage will be higher so no different. Childcare for one child can be £1.5k-£2k per month. Already there's nothing left and we haven't even got to buying any food.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that to earn the money to live in the places where you can get those salaries the living costs are much higher?! Not much use comparing living costs in Hull to a salary for a London job is it, anymore the you could live in Hull and earn a Swiss wage. These conversations are so stupid and boring. You cannot judge if someone has any spare money based on the salary without considering what is left after tax and essential living costs. Someone in the Congo would probably think you were filthy rich. It's totally meaningless to consider salary out of context when mortgages/ rent, childcare costs for the area, commuting to work etc are involved.

If they move somewhere else they probably won't have those salaries will they? Why don't you try moving to Congo and earning whatever you do now. Won't really work with a 12 hour commute or whatever, will it? 🙄 Are people really this thick that they don't grasp that cost of living is different in different places?!?

Yeah, absolutely another example of cognitive dissonance, and being rather hard of thinking or understanding even the very basics of the UK economy. And a totally irrelevant distraction from this thread when you presumably could look this stuff up and learn about it yourself if you wanted to actually understand it. Tiresome nonsense.

Op has said she will be 18K better off per year shortly.
If that's not enough make changes.

You can't live a life you can't afford and expecting your DP to provide it is ridiculous.
Mine would have laughed their heads off if I had gone to them for money to fund an expensive holiday.
No wonder so many people are in debt.

Why shouldn't they go on cruises?

Their money their choice.

I think it's a bloody cheek that you think they should give up their holidays to fund their adult daughter's holidays of choice.

To get an £80k defined benefit pension you would need a pretty high final salary and a lot of years in the scheme. It would be quite unusual - particularly since it sounds as though he left work a few years before normal retirement age. Unless your dad worked at a high level in the public sector, or a senior job in a corporate with long service, it’s an unusually large final salary pension.

A surprising number of employees in public and private sectors in OP's parents' generation retired on final salary pensions of this kind of value. Yes he would have been relatively senior but not massively necessarily: the schemes used to be much more generous. And don't forget they are index linked so will have been being uprated by ~10% the last couple of years, when salaries obviously haven't. These days schemes will only make such payouts for the highest paid people but that wasn't always the case, for people who were still on old terms.