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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be scared people will judge us for buying a flat with a DC

153 replies

CommuterMummy · 20/03/2023 17:38

DH and I currently live with our school age DS in Surbiton, zone 6. We are renting but think of buying our first property in the next 1 or 2 years. We love living here, have made friends and have a lovely lifestyle with an easy commute to work, lots of local shops and cafes, parks and a good school for DS with good wrap around care. Sadly, our salaries will only allow us to get a flat here as houses are way too expensive and it’s unlikely we will be able to upgrade to a house if we get a flat first as we are late thirties and with a relatively limited earning potential (room for increases but not much, especially DH’s job).
All the people I have met at DS’s schools either live in beautiful houses or are in the process to sell their flats to upgrade (either in the same area or further out) so I am starting to wonder if we are the “weird” ones to consider raising our child in an apartment? I know this is a silly reason for wanting a house (well, of course I’d love a house and a garden) but I just cannot shake this “social anxiety” about living in a flat and I am scared DS will feel different from the other kids for that. Equally though, is it wise to uproot our life just for the sake of being more socially compliant with what the British society expects from families? I just need external opinions and experiences because I honestly cannot seem to find a solution in my mind and cannot stop obsessing about this.

OP posts:
ijoiu9898 · 21/03/2023 11:00

@Anoisagusaris surely the difference there is that in the rural area - everyone else will also be raising their teens there. Here the issue is that most people in that area with kids who have a choice will be living in a house. Flats do tend to be lived in by young professionals without kids. So there judgement will come from other parents at the school not forums such as MN

RosaBonheur · 21/03/2023 11:14

ijoiu9898 · 21/03/2023 10:37

@RosaBonheur a curious what sized flat do you live in? How big are Parisian flats that people live in with kids?

Mine is 105m2 and has three bedrooms. (It's not in Paris itself, but about 20 minutes away on the train.)

There are plenty of middle class people in Paris who earn decent salaries and live in 60-80m2 apartments with at least one child.

My boss and his wife probably make €200k a year between them and they live in an apartment in Paris with three children, the eldest of whom is about 14. Not sure how many m2 they have.

ijoiu9898 · 21/03/2023 11:29

@RosaBonheur thanks. I actually lived in France as a kid but wasnt all that interested in size of people's houses at the time. I do always hear about how small flats in Paris can be ( I was in North East of France). But wasnt quite sure what the norm is. Living in one context i.e. London - you often forget that other norms and contexts exist

RosaBonheur · 21/03/2023 11:40

ijoiu9898 · 21/03/2023 11:29

@RosaBonheur thanks. I actually lived in France as a kid but wasnt all that interested in size of people's houses at the time. I do always hear about how small flats in Paris can be ( I was in North East of France). But wasnt quite sure what the norm is. Living in one context i.e. London - you often forget that other norms and contexts exist

Yes, it's a completely different mindset.

I think one reason why apartments aren't looked down on in France is because so many "rich" people live in them. Basically no one who lives in Paris lives in a house. Lots of people in France live in houses, but in other, cheaper parts of the country, in houses which are worth much less than the Parisian apartments. A rich Parisian will not move to the suburbs so they can live in a house. They will carry on living in their small apartment in Paris during the week and buy a house in Normandy for weekends.

So living in a small apartment with no outdoor space just isn't seen as something you would only do if you were dirt poor here.

I don't think I know anyone our age, with kids, living in an apartment bigger than ours. We decided not to buy in Paris because we wouldn't have been able to afford 60m2, and then we ended up buying a renovation job which meant we got more bang for our buck. Everyone who comes to our apartment comments on how big it is. The only people we know with small kids who live in houses are living much further away from Paris than we are.

Itstillgoeson · 21/03/2023 12:12

I would not give a flying f what other people may think. If they want to judge they are very sad.

My husband and I lived in flats before we met and initially, including when DC were very small - daily trips to the park. Now we have a house in the countryside - it was less than a two bed flat in the city, so did not come with financial stress.

I would make a list of pros and cons. For us, pros of the house are that we love the garden (particularly during lockdown), DC likes to be in the garden and so doesn't have much screen time, BBQs in the summer, being able to sit outside, space for bikes and pets. Peaceful - DC can walk to friends' houses. Not having to worry about noise - e.g. DC running around and noise being heard in the flat underneath (did not have this issue, but have a friend who has had a lot of hassle with this). Parking is easy, in the city our flat did not have an allocated space. When we lived in the city we had a different lifestyle and there were a lot of good things with that.

Original poster
CommuterMummy · 21/03/2023 12:28

@ijoiu9898 I suppose I am just still struggling to live within a context that has a different mindset, I sometimes miss how "easier" life in Europe can be on some matters

OP posts:
TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu · 21/03/2023 12:33

I am starting to wonder if we are the “weird” ones to consider raising our child in an apartment? I know this is a silly reason for wanting a house (well, of course I’d love a house and a garden) but I just cannot shake this “social anxiety” about living in a flat and I am scared DS will feel different from the other kids for that

I think you need to get the hell outta Surbiton.
The rich folks there are making you feel inadequate.

ijoiu9898 · 21/03/2023 12:35

@CommuterMummy I get what you mean. My British husband literally thinks that we'd be mad to move to a flat. He thinks people will make fun of DC and DC will hate it. We lived in Europe for over two decades and he was totally fine living in flats. The reality is that there is still a stigma in Britain (even in London) about living in a flat - people do assume you must be poor or poorer than them and people do judge. However, clearly objectively speaking it doesnt matter. Having lived in a less nice area - and you know we are talking nice but not posh posh......give me the nice area over the big house - but for most of my British friends they would pick the house over area.

The other thing is that - in theory - a lot of Brits assume that they will downsize when older and go for a cash release. In practice, am not sure many people actually do that. But there is a problem that in the future you cant really downsize from a flat. This makes having a house be seen as better - i.e. it's a savings mechanism that goes up in price that you can then trade down and get cash from.

TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu · 21/03/2023 12:35

Mumsnet doesn’t help with this though as most people here seem so adamant that flats are not for raising kids in and you must get a house with a garden and a spare room if you have a family.

Many mumsnetters are raising DC in flats.
I'm genuinely puzzled why you believe other people have an issue with this.
Is your social circle particularly judgemental?

Original poster
CommuterMummy · 21/03/2023 12:39

@TaunterOfWomenInGeneralSaysSayonarastu not judgmental on us, at least not openly but most British people I know would never consider raising DC in a flat and rather move further out to get a house.
Yes, MN is full of threads with people suggesting a house is the only way to raise a family.

OP posts:
neilyoungismyhero · 21/03/2023 12:39

Most of Europe live in flats and apartments for heaven sake. I think this is reverse snobbery isn't it?

Sounds like you have a really great life do get a grip.

Ilkleymoor · 21/03/2023 12:40

You know you are being silly, especially in London, but equally I have sympathy for those moments in life when you are different to other people - it feels worse when you feel like it affects your kids somehow too.

I have a friendship group where everyone is a well paid lawyer with well paid lawyer partners. This has never been an issue. Until I had kids too and suddenly conversations around sending kids to private school felt pointed, even though I have never had an interest in doing so, never mind the money. I had an uncomfortable evening and it made me feel a bit shaky about that group and then I got over it.

Original poster
CommuterMummy · 21/03/2023 12:41

@Ilkleymoor I am sorry you felt that way - are you still friends?

OP posts:
Original poster
CommuterMummy · 21/03/2023 12:43

@ijoiu9898 I also struggle with that as I want to get a place I love and we can decor to our taste and build memories in and the thought of selling it to get cash out of it doesn't seem appealing, although I appreciate why people do that and they might end up with a more comfortable retirement

OP posts:
CecilyP · 21/03/2023 12:44

I think one reason why apartments aren't looked down on in France is because so many "rich" people live in them. Basically no one who lives in Paris lives in a house. Lots of people in France live in houses, but in other, cheaper parts of the country, in houses which are worth much less than the Parisian apartments. A rich Parisian will not move to the suburbs so they can live in a house. They will carry on living in their small apartment in Paris during the week and buy a house in Normandy for weekends.

It is also the nature of the housing stock in Paris or Amsterdam, that it is flats. London is a bit different in that you don't have to be that far from the centre to have a house. Then there are endless suburbs where people mainly live in houses. Surbiton is an oddity because it is both one of those suburbs, so most people in the area will be in houses, yet it has a large stock of privately owned flats, largely because of the fast trains to Waterloo.

Ilkleymoor · 21/03/2023 14:21

@CommuterMummy yeh, it's fine, it was just one of those moments when you realise your lives are different and I was the odd one out. It doesn't actually matter, no one was judging me.

MasterBeth · 21/03/2023 14:24

It's no-one else's business but your own. As long as you do the best you can for your kids with the resources you have, no-one has the right to judge

Winebeckons · 21/03/2023 15:06

I know where you're coming from as in the UK people seem to definitely rate houses over flats. When I had my son, whilst living in a Central London high rise flat my British friends all made comments showing that assumed I'd move out to the suburbs so he could have a garden. I couldn't think of anything worse - I hate gardening and a garden would just mean outdoor housework when I can't even stand the inside variety. 16 years later we're still here and my son says he never wants to live in a house - he loves high rise living and flats generally - he views them as safer than being on the ground floor where intruders could get in. My 'judgy' friends put their oar in when he was little and then stopped when they they realised I wasn't budging. I don't think they've carried on judging me as they can see that it works - we have loads of parks nearby and I've much preferred sitting being in a park with others than being in a garden on our own. Interestingly lots of our friends aren't British and they all live in flats even though they could easily afford to buy a house only slightly further out. One family even moved to live in a converted office with no outside space with their three young kids when the could easily have afforded a house or a place with a garden. Even more interestingly, when another friend moved out to the suburbs to what I viewed as a lovely house (being a Brit) the flat-dwellers became the judgy ones. They just couldn't understand why someone would live further out and be away from everything, just in order to have a house; having a house was just not seen as better in any way. In your case, you can't afford a house but can afford a flat so that will be your choice - embrace it and enjoy it. Final comment: my son is now in a posh private school and we've had sleepovers in our tiny flat (which is the size of one of the gyms in his one of his friend's houses 😀). His school friends all live in 4-5 storey houses, in posh areas. My son's not experienced any negativity at all about our home.

Original poster
CommuterMummy · 21/03/2023 15:18

@Winebeckons thank you for your comment :) It sounds like you live in a very posh part of London!
To be fair, we could afford a house, just not here in Surbiton, so it would mean a longer commute, changing schools, move to a new area for what will most likely be a 2 bed terraced. I just don't know whether it's worth it yet. The difference in another area is that we might be more likely to be able to "upgrade" whereas here where we are now, houses would be way too expensive for it to happen at our age/income.

OP posts:
NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 21/03/2023 18:16

Just one thing OP- the UK is still in Europe and British people are European too!

We only left the EU, not the continent. (And almost half of us didn’t even want to do that)

Elfandwellbeing · 21/03/2023 18:17

Scared … really ?

Original poster
CommuterMummy · 21/03/2023 18:32

@NeverApologiseNeverExplain 😅yes I mean continental Europe!

OP posts:
MichaelAndEagle · 21/03/2023 19:09

We live in a flat in a different UK city. Its actually what is available here in place of the two up two down terraced houses in a lot of cities.

We could also afford a house in a different area but like you we love the area.

My kids have never experienced any problems and when I have mentioned would they rather live in a house elsewhere they are adamant they prefer it as it is.
Also in a flat I can usually hear what's going on, rather than the kids being off upstairs all evening. That has its pros and cons though!

Minfilia · 21/03/2023 19:19

My DS was bullied and called a “posh cunt” because we live in a nice house. He is about as far from posh as you can possibly get and we are very much a WC family!

Point is, it doesn’t fucking matter because wherever you live, someone will always judge you for it. So do what makes you happy.

soffa · 21/03/2023 19:19

@OodlesPoodle

"I don’t want to live in suburbia - that’s my reason for preferring a flat"

which is absolutely fine

Stating my preference and reason for a preference isn’t judgement Defending my decisions isn’t judgement Explaining why I think people judge isn’t judgement.

Agree

Making someone else feel bad about their choices by actively criticising, turning your nose up at, or mocking them is judgement.

Agree which is why I thought your below comments were judgemental....

"I think it's crazy to take on all the upkeep of a house, move to suburbia/commuter belt and pay stupid money for an awful commute into London and have kids who out of boredom will do drugs anyway if they want to"

"Most ironic is that I'm the most outdoorsy one of all of them despite growing up in a city!! My friends' kids are on screens all day, garden never getting used because the parents aren't active or dads go off on their own with friends "

😆