To be scared people will judge us for buying a flat with a DC

[CommuterMummy]

DH and I currently live with our school age DS in Surbiton, zone 6. We are renting but think of buying our first property in the next 1 or 2 years. We love living here, have made friends and have a lovely lifestyle with an easy commute to work, lots of local shops and cafes, parks and a good school for DS with good wrap around care. Sadly, our salaries will only allow us to get a flat here as houses are way too expensive and it’s unlikely we will be able to upgrade to a house if we get a flat first as we are late thirties and with a relatively limited earning potential (room for increases but not much, especially DH’s job).
All the people I have met at DS’s schools either live in beautiful houses or are in the process to sell their flats to upgrade (either in the same area or further out) so I am starting to wonder if we are the “weird” ones to consider raising our child in an apartment? I know this is a silly reason for wanting a house (well, of course I’d love a house and a garden) but I just cannot shake this “social anxiety” about living in a flat and I am scared DS will feel different from the other kids for that. Equally though, is it wise to uproot our life just for the sake of being more socially compliant with what the British society expects from families? I just need external opinions and experiences because I honestly cannot seem to find a solution in my mind and cannot stop obsessing about this.

This. You do the best you can for you. What other people think is completely irrelevant.

I hope you find a lovely flat 😊

@LolaSmiles I hope it didn't come across as mean-spirited — it was just meant as a joke taking advantage of one of the many ambiguities of English (and also to contrast it as something that's actually judgement-worthy, in comparison to the not-so-terrible crime of providing your child a safe, secure place to live which happens to share a building with other people's homes).

The people I know, who have left London rather than live in a flat, were people who had multiple children (usually 2 or 3 boys incidentally). They couldn't bear the physicality of 2/3 children in a small space and felt they constantly had to get out.
It certainly wasn't because they felt ashamed of living in a flat. For a family with one child a flat in a nice area sounds a very wise decision. Noone worth being friends with will judge you.

JarByTheDoor
Absolutely not mean spirited at all.
It was funny, once I'd read it a couple of time and the penny dropped. 😂 Early morning mumsnetting ought to be accompanied with coffee.

Phew 😅

Good grief. I was one of 4 kids. Born in the mid 60s. We lived in a council flat, yes a flat, in London. No garden. Surrounded by other people who also lived in council flats.
I'm now in my 50s, successful, no criminal record. As are my siblings.
FFS.

I guess the point is you would be choosing to live in a flat when you could afford a house just in a less nice area. Those who talk about growing up in council estates presumably that was less of a choice.

I'm not British but have lived here 16 years, and exH and current Dp are both British. And I completely agree with you that there is a weird middle class British attitude to house v flat. They seem to view flats as places you stay if you can't afford a house, not a valid choice in itself. And that kids need a lot of space, cities are dangerous etc etc. Very different from the Continent or even Asia where city living is flat living and kids turn out just fine. So yes, there may be some raised eyebrows but you can just ignore this.

I much prefer flats, and hate suburbia so am in negotiations with DP we carry on in London in a flat. He grew up in a house (despite being working class) everyone he knows lives in houses so he thinks I'm crazy. I think it's crazy to take on all the upkeep of a house, move to suburbia/commuter belt and pay stupid money for an awful commute into London and have kids who out of boredom will do drugs anyway if they want to. I have friends who can't fathom that my life isn't going to be complete with a house and garden. Most ironic is that I'm the most outdoorsy one of all of them despite growing up in a city!! My friends' kids are on screens all day, garden never getting used because the parents aren't active or dads go off on their own with friends - whereas my European city flat living friends take their kids hiking/biking every weekend so they are more active.

Do what makes you happy. That will make your kids happy, don't let them cotton on to your insecurities about a flat. There will always be judgy people - who get uncomfortable with anyone who doesn't fit the norm. Because they need everyone to be exactly alike to feel confident with their choices. Ignore those people.

I much prefer flats, and hate suburbia so am in negotiations with DP we carry on in London in a flat. He grew up in a house (despite being working class) everyone he knows lives in houses so he thinks I'm crazy. I think it's crazy to take on all the upkeep of a house, move to suburbia/commuter belt and pay stupid money for an awful commute into London and have kids who out of boredom will do drugs anyway if they want to.

What are you classing as suburbia? The OP is in Surbiton, Z6 & it's pretty suburban. I would say parts of my area are too but I wouldn't really agree with the narrative above.

There will always be judgy people - who get uncomfortable with anyone who doesn't fit the norm. Because they need everyone to be exactly alike to feel confident with their choices.

This is true & you are doing the exact same thing! 😆

Honestly there is the potential for judgement from some whatever you do. You see on here the people who think bringing up kids within the m25 is immoral, or the people for whom just a house isn't enough it must be detached and have a garage.
High fuel prices are here to stay. I suspect that will help to calm down the British obsession with houses in suburbia a bit.

@SicParvisMagna I am so sorry if I came across as ungrateful, I am really appreciative of what we have and we also do not come from wealthy families so I do not take anything for granted. Which is why I am so surprised to hear people talk negatively about flats in this country as back home is just a different world.

@soffa yes it is suburban but we don't find it boring as it's 17 min away from central London, can walk to Kingston in 10 min and have all the amenities and shops you need, beautiful river walk and when I am at the playground I hear a lot of different languages around me, which I love and not sure how common it is in other suburban areas

@NeverApologiseNeverExplain oh yeah, I get that a lot too but we are so happy with our choice that I truly don't care what others think 💃

I don’t want to live in suburbia - that’s my reason for preferring a flat . OP’s reasons for preferring a flat are different to mine but still a valid choice. And that’s what my post was intended to do - share my experience which is similar even if I live in zone 3 east London and OP lives in zone 6 south west London.

Stating my preference and reason for a preference isn’t judgement. Defending my decisions isn’t judgement. Explaining why I think people judge isn’t judgement. Making someone else feel bad about their choices by actively criticising, turning your nose up at, or mocking them is judgement.

Making someone feel like they have to defend their decisions is also judgement, though more subtle.

I am sorry about this - so are you also changing areas again and moving back to the old one or is it just a house for a flat you are swapping? I wish you all the best!

Not sure I agree with your comments. Firstly, if you read what other have said you'll see several EU posters have noticed the same thing about the UK.

Secondly, champagne taste on a beer budget would mean I'd want a big house with a garden whereas I'd be actually choosing to purchase a flat despite having the budget for a bigger property somewhere else, because I value the area more than the size of the house.

Well with children in a flat I'd imagine the only people who will judge you are your downstairs neighbours.

I agree with you. Hope you manage to convince DP!
I also have colleagues that own houses with gardens and never use the space.
One of them is single but took on a massive mortgage to afford a 3 bed house with private garage and garden (that she doesn't use) and constantly moans she doesn't have any money or time as commute is also horrible and expensive. Her choice. She is single, could have settled in a much smaller property but hey! Gotta have the big house and the garden and the big car.

What are your actual options, OP?

Carry on renting, buy a flat, or move to another part of the country, uprooting all your lives in the process?

I'd say buying a flat is the best of the options actually available to you.

I have two children and I live in a flat. So does everyone else I know round here. (We live in an expensive suburb of Paris.)

@RosaBonheur it wouldn't be another part of the country tbh, but it would be a different area with a longer commute.
I know, I am European and grew up in a flat myself, nobody I know back home has ever lived in a house, it just isn't the norm over there nor is something people aspire to. The UK is a different world.

And thinking about it, I find keeping on top of the housework enough of a chore as it is.

I'm glad I don't have another 50m2 and a garden to take care of.

So in our case - we will definitely be moving to a flat next. Personally, I just do see the point of a house in London - it doesnt give me enough. Currently trying to decide whether we move back to our old area and buy a flat - for the same price as our house mind you. Or wait it out here and move into a flat to get enough money for private school in our current area. But the reality is that I would much rather live in the nicest area possible or send my kid private than have the benefit of a family sized house.

My impression is that Brits go for the best house in the best area they can afford - whereas Europeans got for the best area and then the best accommodation in that area. I know plenty of Europeans living in central London who have a household income of at least 250-300k per year and live in two bed flats in places like Notting hill and Kensington. Clearly they can afford to live in massive houses in zone 3 but would much rather have location over size of their property.

However, I myself started a thread on this in the past and most people told me that we should go for a house because we've got a child - so you are not wrong OP in your concerns.

@RosaBonheur a curious what sized flat do you live in? How big are Parisian flats that people live in with kids?

Only very stupid people would judge you. I wouldn't worry about them. It sounds like you've got your priorities right to me.

You also have the posters who think raising teens in a rural area is a horrific way to treat them.