To refuse to leave rented property

[Boymamabee]

I’m having an ethical dilemma thanks to my husband…

I’m heavily pregnant (due a c-section next month) and we’ve been served a two month no-fault notice by our landlord (it’s all valid).

We’re struggling to find rented properties within our price range and although we’re at risk of homelessness, the council can’t guarantee temp accommodation before our notice expires. This makes my husband anxious as he says we have no right to stay in a house we don’t own and it’s unfair on the LL whose sale might fall through.

Places for the same amount of rent, or less, than we currently pay are more rural and would cost more fuel. Many of the local schools don’t have specialised facilities for kids with ASD (think rural schools with 20 students and 2 LSAs) and DS LOVES his school!

This is where it gets tricky…

We’ve been advised that if we stay with family or friends before the LL enacts a court possession order, we could be seen as making ourselves “intentionally homeless”. Likewise if we get ourselves into debt/arrears living somewhere we can’t afford.

I’ve proposed we listen to
their advice and stay put for now, but DH thinks it’s selfish and we’ll naturally find another way to make ends meet. He wants to be out before our contract ends and he feels sorry for the LL who’s going through a divorce.

AIBU?

Whatever you do, DO NOT make yourselves intentionally homeless. It's not worth it, you will not be eligible for any kind of social housing.
Your LL's problems are not your problems and your DH needs to put his pregnant wife first.

It varies council to council. As long as you have a valid s21 most will take that as proof you are not intentionally homeless.

However sorry you may feel for the landlord it's not worth making yourself intentionally homeless. I mean yes it's technically selfish but you've not been left with a choice.

This.

I would give Shelter a call for advice.

If you cannot find somewhere to rent what does he expect you to do?

i wouldn’t move unless I somewhere to live (not soda surfing) or until the bailiffs are at the door.

Call Shelter OP … and advise your husband to put his pregnant wife first.

Divorce is horrid - I know from experience - but the landlord’s problem must take second place to yours right now. Your husband sounds really lovely, but he’s not in the right here.

We were in the exact same position. We had to stay because we really had no where to go. The sale did fall through which I felt bad about but ultimately it took 5 months and it did go to court but before it got to the court hearing the council found us a 3 bed temporary accommodation. It’s a horrible feeling but in the end it did all work out.

I worked with homeless or "about to be homeless" families for 10 years, so am familiar with the process.

Do NOT leave until the council has accepted a homeless application from you, and accepted that they have a duty to help you under homelessness legislation.

The point at which they will do this varies from council to council: my council will accept a duty once the S21 notice period has ended, but I have heard anecdotally that some councils insist on waiting until the LL has been to court and got a possession order. Be guided by what they tell you. If you go befor they have accepted a duty, you risk being found "intentionally homeless" and they will not have to help you.

When you make your homeless application, and on any forms you fill in prior to that, make sure you mention your DS's ASD and any other medical/MH/disability/special needs any of you have when answering any health/disability questions. Be prepared to fill in loads of tediious forms too, many of which seem mostly to ask for the same information over and over again.

Even though it may seem unfair to your landlord, to risk being actually homeless and not eligible for any help because you left before you have to would be really reckless. It's tough, but in a country where housing is in short supply, you have to be prepared to be tough to get help.

Good luck, OP, this is a shit situation to be in at any time, but when you're in the late stages of a pregnancy it must be really worrying.

You can stay op. He will habe to apply to court to evict and the bailiffs will come round and do so . You will struggle to private rent anywhere ever again. You will be housed by the council but it is likely to be temp accommodation and likely bed and breakfast , hostel type place. You could be there for a couple of years or more as you will struggle to rent again privately and the council may eventually house you in a location you do not wish,

you’ve used very emotive language, basically making out your husband is some form if soft idiot and wants to leave to help the landlord. He may well be some form of soft idiot. However he is right. 100 percent. It is completely in your best interests to find alternate accommodation.

if the landlord applies immediately it’s likely you buy yourself 3 months before rhe bailiffs turn up. Sometimes much quicker, sometimes longer. You do not want this with a baby. Refusing to leave doesn’t mean you get to stay there as long as you wish. It buys you a few weeks before you’re forcibly removed. That’s all.

if you genuinely are homeless and cannot find another place then you need to stay put and take what’s coming. If you can find some place else, it is hugely advisable

If you have no where to go, don’t move!

Its a hassle yes, but the only way you need to leave is with bailiffs at the door or another property comes up.

We are in the same situation. Been over staying our notice now for 7 months

And this is one of the reasons why most landlords don't offer rentals under market value because tenants get comfortable and then can't afford to move out to a similar property and so cause much trouble to the landlord. Of course, before then, they are deemed greedy fir no good reason.

Just bear in mind that you are likely to be liable for all court costs, potentially including the landlord's and right so.

Firstly he doesn’t take on responsibilities to home them when he rents a property to them. The contractual terms apply. He doesn’t assume parental guardian responsibilities for tenants and he isn’t providing a charitable service, to put it bluntly. The ops issues are really not his problem, it’s not how it works. They can stay and make it his problem, but a court will ultimately sort it.

in addition you can say stay till the bailiffs come, but that’s huge repercussions. They may get lucky and the council has no homeless folks in temp accommodation waiting, and they are housed right away, but if there is a shortage, as there is in many places. they maybe in temp accommodation for a considerable period. And it is unlikely to be nice. To put it mildly. They will also struggle to ever private rent again. No private landlord will every go near them.

this isn’t they can’t afford another place. They can. They just can’t afford it where they are now. So It just has negative implications for them. Travel, schools, whatever.

if they genuinely can’t find somewhere else, then they have no choice but to stay. If they can, and as the husband says, they can make it work. Then they should do this.

Court ordered Eviction, bailiffs, temp accommodation, with a new born and an autistic child is going to be very painful for them indeed and have long lasting ramifications.

I just want to highlight this as a factually correct and critically important post if you want the council to house you. Read it a second time and do exactly what LakieLady said.

If you're under one of the councils who won't take you until you've been through the court process, you have my sympathy as it's an incredibly dumb system that unfairly heaps extra costs on you (you will be liable for the landlord's court/bailiff costs, though we're talking hundreds not thousands there), but you've still got to follow the system.

Yanbu. Yes it is annoying for the landlord and the sale may fall through but that is not your problem. Don't make yourself intentionally homeless. I am a former landlord, they should be more than aware that this is a possibility.

I could never find it in me to care about how this might impact a l̶e̶a̶c̶h̶ landlord, for all I care about them and their ilk they can do one, especially if i was pregnant.

Please listen to the advice of the person dealing with your homeless application. I was a homeless officer for 25 years and you don't leave until you are advised to by them. Yes, you could be found to be intentionally homeless if you just leave. Worsening your situation by staying temporarily with friends is also not the best way to go. I know it sucks but do everything by the board according to the homeless section and get them to contact your landlord to explain.

Why, thank you @ThePants999 . (tips hat)

Yes, it is bloody unfair to force people into being liable for legal costs, but councils do this because they are so desperately short of housing. I don't agree with it, but it means that a lot of people who can will somewhere to rent will do so themselves.

Housing in this country is fucked imo, has been since the early 80s, and it won't get any better until we get a government that is prepared to make significant capital investment in housing. In the medium-long term, social housing pays for itself, so the decision not to invest in it is political, and nothing to do with needs or economics.

I really hope you get somewhere soon, OP, and that you soon get to move into a nice new home with the lovely new baby you'll have by then.

Its horrible and stressful but if you leave and stay with family you will be seen as intentionally homeless and that will be that you will be right down to the bottom of the list. It sucks I've been there but its worth it in the end.

Court ordered Eviction, bailiffs, temp accommodation, with a new born and an autistic child is going to be very painful for them indeed and have long lasting ramifications.

It may not come to bailiffs and eviction, depending on what the local council's practice is. It wouldn't be in my area, or under at least 4 of the other 5 councils in my county. And even if the OP found a PRS property that they could afford, they could still find themselves back to square one in a year's time, which would also be very difficult for an autistic child and the baby who will be a toddler by then.

A new born and a child with special needs would give the OP's family very high priority over other families in most councils.

Which has just given me an afterthought, @Boymamabee : you may need to ask for a medical needs form in respect of your son. I know of one council that doesn't give them out automatically, because they are complete shits and don't want to house anyone, so they get round it by not even letting people know that they have to complete a medical/disability needs form, even though they've explained it all on their homelessness application.

I'm sorry for the ll too. But why is your husband more worried about him than his pregnant wife?

You won’t mind the fact that none of them will even consider renting to you again, then…

I had the same many years ago.
Sat tight, got temp accommodation and then a HA house, (with a lifetime tenancy though probably not possible now).
It was scary as it was just me and then 9yr old Dd but it paid off.
Still in my HA home 12 years on.

Hope you’ve got extra money to pay the landlords costs when he is forced to get bailiffs to remove you.

If you are OK with a move from where you are now into temporary housing (usually a b&b) courtesy of the council called then stay put. If that's not an option you want to consider then you need another solution .

Do you have family you could (and would want to) stay with? If so, you could talk to Shelter and get some advice - it doesn't automatically mean you've "made yourself intentionally homeless" but it is true you'll not be at the top of the priority list. You could try local housing associations.

What you don't need to do is worry about the landlord. I am one - I don't agree that we are leeches- but we are all offering a service that comes with certain rules. One of the constraints is that people can't/won't always just leave because you want them to and you have to factor that in. Just tell them the truth - you're looking but can't find anything you can afford. They can get advice from the landlords associations about the steps to take but we all know councils won't act til their hand is forced.

We’re struggling to find rented properties within our price range. Places for the same amount of rent, or less, than we currently pay are more rural and would cost more fuel.

To me, the heart of the issue is that this is unlikely to change. Rental costs are going up, not down. You won’t magically find somewhere else you can afford in the area if you want after digging your heels in until
you're forcibly evicted. The reality is that, as other posters have pointed out, you’re likely to find it much more difficult. Landlords will have put their prices up - but more crucially, they simply won’t touch you. No way will you pass a credit check with a forced eviction on your record.

I wouldn’t make myself intentionally homeless in your shoes - but I would consider the less ideal properties. Of course it’s not what you want, but it’s not like you’re looking to buy and don’t want to rush into it; you don’t have the option to simply stay in your rental property.