To refuse to leave rented property

[Boymamabee]

I’m having an ethical dilemma thanks to my husband…

I’m heavily pregnant (due a c-section next month) and we’ve been served a two month no-fault notice by our landlord (it’s all valid).

We’re struggling to find rented properties within our price range and although we’re at risk of homelessness, the council can’t guarantee temp accommodation before our notice expires. This makes my husband anxious as he says we have no right to stay in a house we don’t own and it’s unfair on the LL whose sale might fall through.

Places for the same amount of rent, or less, than we currently pay are more rural and would cost more fuel. Many of the local schools don’t have specialised facilities for kids with ASD (think rural schools with 20 students and 2 LSAs) and DS LOVES his school!

This is where it gets tricky…

We’ve been advised that if we stay with family or friends before the LL enacts a court possession order, we could be seen as making ourselves “intentionally homeless”. Likewise if we get ourselves into debt/arrears living somewhere we can’t afford.

I’ve proposed we listen to
their advice and stay put for now, but DH thinks it’s selfish and we’ll naturally find another way to make ends meet. He wants to be out before our contract ends and he feels sorry for the LL who’s going through a divorce.

AIBU?

@Youkilledmyfatherpreparetodie I'm confident in the advice I've just given which is right. If you leave a property when evicted and have somewhere else to go, even if it renders you part of an overcrowded property, then you are NOT homeless. If you are capable of finding an alternative independently then is not homelessness either. I agree that absolutely independent advice should be sought, especially in ascertaining that this is a legal eviction, however as stated it depends on where you are in the UK. Scotland etc have different legislation.

DO NOT LEAVE
I have been in your very same shoes. One DS who has SEN and I was heavily pregnant. Spoke to our local council who advised us exactly the same- I.e we couldn't leave as we would make ourselves intentionally homeless.

However, you MUST continue to pay your rent. Our local council checked with the landlord to ensure we didn't have any rent arrears. We contacted the landlord and explained our predicament. He wasn't happy at all and become quite threatening and abusive. However, we stayed put, kept the property tidy and continued to pay rent. The council said there was a high chance we would be put into a hostel or temporary accommodation. However, 2 weeks before I had my baby we were allocated a 3 bedroom house with a garden (we lived in a flat before). It was a state but a few years on its now our beautiful home and we feel so lucky to have it.

Just stay put, box up and continue to pay your rent.

Also, ask for an OT assessment. This really sped up our application and also meant we didn't ultimately need to stay in temporary accommodation. It also meant the house was suitable for our DC and had adaptions done before we moved in.

You are being incredibly selfish. From what you’ve added after the fact it seems also
not a desperate need but a choice and preference related to schools/location.

Remember landlords are actual people to with problems and lives ….just because you can stay and exercise rights doesn’t mean u should. You have no idea what turmoil this could
create for them. It’s their legal property not yours and if they have been decent landlords be decent and leave once your notice is up instead of creating a horrible situation for all involved.

Also I presume if u wait for council you will
have no say on area or school you can choose then either ? It would be more sensible to
have control and find somewhere yourself rather than end up in a crappy council house. Paying legal fees and never get the chance of being a private tenant again - so wouldn’t risk it. I also believe in karma … I wouldn’t do a shitty thing just because I can

Maybe you need to be a bit more open to rental compromises? I can't believe you'd make your family, including a newborn, homeless because a house wasn't quite in the right area

''@drpet49

Hope you’ve got extra money to pay the landlords costs when he is forced to get bailiffs to remove you.''

Hope you can grasp that a pregnant woman can't just end up homeless to keep her landlords happy...if she has no other options she will have to stay put.

I understand that life happens and he’s entitled to change his mind but I hope he’ll be somewhat understanding

in what way op? What difference will an extra few weeks make, it’s still not going to change it. I’m sorry. Somewhat understanding is not letting you have his property as long as you wish it.

if I was you I’d start speaking to the school now . Call them tomorrow, contact the local authority, I think you need to accept you’re moving, be it in two months or six months, but you are moving. Even if the sale falls through, he’s going to evict. It is better if possible you leave on your terms.

thinking of ways to delay the inevitable isn’t going to sort your issue. You need to start acting.

We are a low income family. This is the second time we’ve been given a no-fault notice in 18 months (we’ve been in this property 10 months) and our rent has increased by £125 over two years (not to mention gas and electric).

When I say rural areas are marginally cheaper, I mean marginally, and we would likely still be out-priced by the additional cost of fuel (and everything else). Also, there’s nothing stopping the new landlord from upping the rent after six months. It’s happened twice in less than two years.

DH wants to move first then find a second job, or ways to cut costs, after we move. Shelter have advised us against this but DH really doesn’t like the idea of a court possession order and would rather be out before it comes to that. And that’s if we can get a property - one place stopped processing applications after a day due to such high interest.

You have your opinion but it's not that black and white.

I think you’ve misread what she’s said, her husband wishes her to , move to where they can afford. He is not suggesting they go sleep in a cardboard box to make the landlord happy.

Shelter have advised us against this but DH really doesn’t like the idea of a court possession order and would rather be out before it comes to that

i really do not believe shelter has advised you do not rent elsewhere you can afford. You’ve already said there is a place that’s cheaper next to your husbands work. I agree you noth need to sort the finances now. Cutting costs looking for additional work, but if you can find a place in budget you should Jump at it.

Of course a court ordered eviction is the worst.

@Thefriendlyone sorry if my post wasn’t clear. Shelter haven’t advised us not to rent somewhere we can afford. What I meant is that some rural places are only marginally cheaper and we’d still be out-priced by the cost of fuel. So far, I’ve only seen one property where this isn’t the case. DH suggested applying for properties regardless and then finding a second job once we’ve moved (not that they’re likely to accept us). I’d rather wait for a financial assessment. If somewhere suitable comes up before our notice expires, of course we’ll take it, but we were advised against staying with family or friends before our notice is up.

If you don't leave when asked you may be given a bad reference by your landlord. There is a shortage of properties to rent at the moment so is this something you'd risk?

I do appreciate it’s a difficult situation especially if you are low income.
will you be entitled to extra benefits when baby comes ?
I would try to negotiate extra agreed time with the landlord so you can explore other options/locations- maybe husband can also look for extra work if he wants a second job to help ?
I really think the eviction process will be very stressful for all involved (including you with a new baby ) and will incur costs you cannot afford and worst case end up in temporary accommodation?
Agreed no situation is black and white , but you need to consider neither is the landlords (a person/family too) ? What if rent was increased as they cannot afford the mortgage (whilst I imagine paying legal fees for a divorce ) what if they are in desperate need to get this property sold because they are in financial mess too ?

Morally I just couldn’t do it and put someone else into difficulty to ease my own problems.
Unless it is literally your only
option and very last resort instead of living on the street rather than choosing to just stay longer. Each to their own id rather try and get the marginally cheaper rural property be in control of where you live and not at the mercy of the council and her husband out to pick up some extra work.

If as you say the notice is valid, I don’t know how you think you should stay. I understand the fact that you are expecting and perhaps you could ask the landlord for an extension for that reason. However, the rest of your reasons are not something that your landlord should have to take into consideration. Costs of rentals aren’t going down any time soon and school systems aren’t going to magically create programs to meet your needs elsewhere. If you don’t move now or in a reasonable time after your baby is born, when do you plan to do so? You don’t own the house.

It sounds as though your LL may have already tried to sell the property with you as sitting tenants.
Unfortunately eviction fees are one of the many causes of rent increases and landlords selling up.

i understand that. Although not the financial assessment thing. You can work out your own options.

I do think the issue here is you and your husband are in different places mentally.

i think he’s accepted you’re moving out and is now trying to find a solution. You are hoping you can somehow stay either in the flat or that location . The first is not going to happen the second highly unlikely.

to risk the council finds you someplace acceptable and in that location is a Enormous gamble that you’re likely to loose and will habe long lasting repercussions for you. It is also likely to be very traumatic for everyone concerned. If you’re evicted and put in temp. Which is the likely outcome, what will you even do with your stuff? Other than what many others need to do and leave it on the ground.

I suspect you know deep down it’s best to sort this yourself , but you’re just rallying against the situation now.

id also check all the benefits you’re entitled to. If you have debt speak to step change or citizens advice. Speak to the school today. And the local authority, but you need to come up with s plan and act.

The legal test of homelessness is if you have somewhere reasonable and suitable to reside for a period of 6 months or more. Staying with friends/family on a temporary basis is not reasonable. You are still homeless in law. Your advice is all wrong and it makes me cross when people claim to be qualified to give advice on things they don't understand. Please think of the impact your incorrect statements could have on vulnerable families.

You've obviously been very lucky with the school he is currently in. However I would not reject the possibility that the village school could do a good job with him too. I would go and talk to them about the provision he has at the moment, and what they would be able to provide. They might not have the sensory room, but the rest might well be possible, and the smaller setting might actually work well for him. In a very small school, they are able to work with each child as an individual, and the continuity of having the same staff throughout means they will really get to understand what works for him.

The reality is that if you wait to be homed by the council, you've no guarantee what you will get - very likely temporary to start with, so potentially two school moves, as well as two home moves.

Yes this!

We were in a similar position...

In addition :

We were advised by CAB/property lawyer:

Continue paying rent as normal

Contact your local courts and find the local waiting list for evictions to be heard... I think 🤔 that they cant apply to court until the 2 months has elapsed... In our area it was 7 months until a likely court date...

Giving a wadge of time to find a suitable alternative property.

I think this pales into insignificance against potentially losing the SEN provision fir her son.

Ive rented a couple of very pleasant places without landlord references...

Its not impossible.

You obviously don't have a child in a rare good SEN focused school.

They're like hens teeth.

Yes landlords are people... But they are also running a business.

It was clearly mad of landlord to market the property without vacant possession... Presumably to get maximal rent til sale.

That's a business risk, he presumably made a willing choice to enter into.

You are right I do not , so when the council house her she is guaranteed still to be housed by this school ? Or could she end up in a grotty bnb with a worse location?

I didn’t realise running a business gave people an excuse to behave poorly to you if you kept up your side of the bargain ? Would you do something similar to a friend/family member and say well you are running a business so it’s ok ?

Not sure if this is relevant to all councils but I found myself homeless this time last year due to DV. During the process I chose the area of my temp accommodation and insisted that my permanent residence was in the same area so that the kids didn’t have to change schools twice. So the advice of people saying that if you’re housed by the council then you could have to change schools multiple times isn’t necessarily correct. I could have stayed in my original area to begin with so they didn’t even have to change school once but with my circumstances I chose to move away. I’m also currently helping a friend in a different council area who is homeless and she also has been given the option to choose the area of where she lives.

Some people can’t seem to weigh up the downsides of the various options.

If the OP doesn’t leave, people mention a bad reference. To be honest, that too really isn’t going to be a big issue if she keeps paying rent and keeping the property in a decent state and it is decent when she goes. It is important, as the Council will look at the issue of if there are rent arrears. Yes, the LL won’t be able to sell, but he was being greedy to try and market the property before having vacant possessions anyway. There is always a risk tenants won’t go and legally exert their right to stay until removed by the legal process.

Also, the disadvantages of a grumpy LL are minor in relation to being homeless. They are in no way comparable, especially with a new baby.

I am a LL and I acknowledge the system in this country is crap. Because there is a lack of social housing, councils won’t house people until they are about to be made homeless. This means those who cannot afford to move elsewhere or have nowhere to go, HAVE to remain in order to get council help. If they go if their own accord, they have made themselves homeless and the council is not obliged to help them.

This LL will in likelihood find his sale falls through when the buyer realises they won’t be able to complete on the house in any specific time frame. Mortgage lenders won’t release funds when tenants are still there and you cannot exchange with them still there, unless a LL is buying the property and paperwork has been signed to take over the tenancy. But this is exactly why LLs should get vacant possession BEFORE marketing. Wanting rent and to market is simply greedy or a failure to manage finances properly to cope with the inevitable period of an empty property that is necessary in order to sell.

The LL will be able to market and sell when the tenant moves out. They will just have to wait. All LLs should know this delay is always a possibility and factor it in. It is poor planning not to do it. So the delay is irritating, but in some ways brought on by themselves and their attempt to market before vacant possession.

Yes, of course LLs should be able to re-gain their properties…..but within legal parameters. All tenants are entitled to legal eviction procedures and all LLs should know those might have to be used. It’s annoying, but simply one of the realities of renting. You receive rent, but in return tenants have a variety of rights and this is one of them. You can’t do away with it.