To refuse to leave rented property

[Boymamabee]

I’m having an ethical dilemma thanks to my husband…

I’m heavily pregnant (due a c-section next month) and we’ve been served a two month no-fault notice by our landlord (it’s all valid).

We’re struggling to find rented properties within our price range and although we’re at risk of homelessness, the council can’t guarantee temp accommodation before our notice expires. This makes my husband anxious as he says we have no right to stay in a house we don’t own and it’s unfair on the LL whose sale might fall through.

Places for the same amount of rent, or less, than we currently pay are more rural and would cost more fuel. Many of the local schools don’t have specialised facilities for kids with ASD (think rural schools with 20 students and 2 LSAs) and DS LOVES his school!

This is where it gets tricky…

We’ve been advised that if we stay with family or friends before the LL enacts a court possession order, we could be seen as making ourselves “intentionally homeless”. Likewise if we get ourselves into debt/arrears living somewhere we can’t afford.

I’ve proposed we listen to
their advice and stay put for now, but DH thinks it’s selfish and we’ll naturally find another way to make ends meet. He wants to be out before our contract ends and he feels sorry for the LL who’s going through a divorce.

AIBU?

If you haven’t found somewhere DO NOT move out. The landlord will then get a court order which is when you will become officially homeless. This is the stage most councils will then house you.

Exactly. The kind of people who dismiss landlords as “leeches” naively imagine that, if private landlords weren’t in the picture, we’d have some first time buyer utopia where prices will plummet and everyone can afford their own home. This very basic thinking ignores several issues:

1. People will always need and want to rent. Not every renter is a frustrated FTB in waiting. Less rental properties means higher rents - and if those people do later change their minds and want to buy, money they could have saved towards a deposit will have gone on increased rent.

2. Even if people can afford higher rents, removing choice makes life difficult for those relocating; for younger people who want to experience flat sharing and a bit of freedom rather than going straight from living with their parents to being married/in a LTR and buying; for people who’ve had to sell up for whatever reason (divorce, financial problems etc.) and can’t buy somewhere new…

3. First time buyers almost inevitably become first time sellers at a later stage in life. Discouraging people from being private landlords might help FTBs buy a cheaper property - but will they be so keen on a massive downturn in potential buyers when they want to move up the ladder? Larger family homes are typically more in demand and appreciate at a greater rate. The “leech” brigade may find a lack of BTL investors isn't quite so helpful at the next stage…

Surely you can arrange transportation assuming it’s under an hour away?

If not surely it’s better to move schools than be stuck in temporary council accommodation, which are more often than not absolutely grim? You could be stuck there for years as there is no guarantee you’d be offered anything permanent given waiting lists are years long.

Sorry, but you can’t not afford rent, you are CHOOSING not to afford rent which is a totally different kettle of fish. Stop being tight, move out, and sort your child’s schooling out.

I said we all have to put ourselves and our families first. They was my advice to OP and I don’t need your opinion on my advice because it wasn’t directed at you. It is up to OP which advice she listens to and if you have a viewpoint on her situation, you should direct that to her not me.

Yes, it’s annoying for the LL, but you are entitled to the full legal process. Keep paying rent and keep the property decent. And I can’t say I have particular sympathy for this LL - marketing the property and getting a buyer before vacant possession has been achieved is never recommended and always a risky strategy.

This 100%

There is wanting the council to house you - and you might not be housed where you currently live - and there is moving to an area of your choice you can better afford.
You really need professional advice on this - maybe ask citizens advice bureau?
If you are in temporary accommodation or offered a council place you don't want...would it be harder for you to find a private rental if the landlord knows you had chosen to remain and classified as homeless? I don't know but I think you need to find out.

It's a shit system but you've got 2 choices. You either stay but be prepared to be placed into hostels (plus depending on where your council cover you could still be offered a property nowhere near where you currently live - a village 25 miles from my house is under the same council as me, it's a 50 minute drive and I'd drive through 2 other council areas to get there). Or you pay the increase and rent privately elsewhere. If you choose to stay you need to keep paying the rent though, it's honestly not going to be worth getting a CCJ.

Surely you won't be thrilled at the travelodge they will house you in for the foreseeable until a temporary flat is available which will be nowhere near where you want.
No washing machine, no cooking facilities, all in one room....
It's awful but true. I don't know where you live just now but there is a very serious lack of social housing and you are 100% better to private rent anywhere just now.

I can’t advise on the housing situation , but Re. your DS and school. My concern would be that if you wait until eviction later in the year and you’re then housed in temporary accommodation, he may have to change schools mid-school year which would be very unsettling. Going to a new school isn’t easy, but it’s even worse if you have to change mid-year.

For his sake, it might make sense to move to the rural location and enroll him in a new school for September. Perhaps your LL would be willing to let you stay until the end of this school year if you explained the situation? It would be preferable to court proceedings.

Also, not sure if it’s worth mentioning, we were told that the LL wanted to sell last November but only* *with sitting tenants (us) before asking us to renew our contracts for a further three months. The letting agents told us we were good tenants and kept the house clean so it should be a smooth transition and not to worry. They told us that when we sign the contract with the new landlord we’d be protected for a further 6 months. So pissed off I didn’t follow my gut and look for somewhere sooner.

I understand that life happens and he’s entitled to change his mind but I hope he’ll be somewhat understanding.

And financially we are very limited in where we can afford to rent.

The school issue is irrelevant. If you dig your heels in and leave on eviction, you could be re-housed literally anywhere. The council won’t give a toss that you want your child to remain in the same school. You could be rehoused in a totally different area of the U.K. They control where you are going to live. At least if you look for somewhere now, you can be in control to a point, although there may have to be a compromise.

So many people in this thread calling landlords leeches. At least they are renting out the homes instead of leaving the homes vacant.

None of you are showing the same level of criticism for investors who buy homes purely for capital values and leave them vacant.

There are 88,000 vacant homes in London.

www.cityam.com/exclusive-130m-worth-of-homes-left-empty-in-london-alone-with-record-87731-vacant-properties/

In this article it compares with the number of vacant homes (probably owned by investors) with the number of people on the council housing list in that area.

Obviously the two types of homes are different. The town mansions and penthouse apartments being left vacant would never be used for social housing. But it is interesting none the less.

www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/londons-36000-empty-homes-how-25491975

These would all be good reasons to stay where you are… IF you had a choice. You don’t, unfortunately.

I see from one of your later posts that you were originally expecting the property to be sold with you as sitting tenants. Is this what you’re banking on? That the current offer will fall through and the landlord will have to sell to someone else with you as sitting tenants? It could happen… but it’s far from inevitable. The buyer might be a first time buyer who’d rather hold on while the current owner gets you out than start the whole process again. If the buyer does pull out, the next buyer might not be interested in sitting tenants either. Or they might whack the rent up and you’ll be no better off.

You say you don’t want to move because your son is settled at school. How long is he going to be at that school? Because if your strategy is to dig your heels in and hope the eviction process goes on until he’s old enough to move schools anyway, that’s both very risky and very stressful.

YANBU.

You do have the right, by law, to stay until evicted through the courts. Who will only evict if the landlord has themselves followed the law.

Continue to pay the rent on your current place, and make all reasonable efforts to find a new home. Both private and social renting. And yes, your child changing schools is reasonable.

Do not move out until you either have a signed contract and the keys to your new place, or the bailiffs evict you, or the landlord threatens or uses criminal violence against you.

Any professional landlord will know the drill. They might not like it, but if you keep paying the rent and don't trash the place they should count themselves lucky IMHO.

You would be an idiot to make yourselves and your kids homeless out of misplaced obligation to your landlord. Does your dh tug his forelock when they do inspections? Bloody hell.

If I were in your position I'd rather be in control of where I end up living, even if it's not ideal, than take my chances with the council.

100% stay put until you’ve either found a new rental or the council are helping you, you do not need to leave after a section 21 expires but if you can get housed before the eviction process it would be beneficial. Keep in touch with your landlord and hopefully they will be willing to extend the notice period.

I’ve been in this situation twice now, we eventually found a private rental but it took 4 months, luckily my landlord was super understanding and they knew how hard we were looking, I was literally begging landlords to consider us.

In the meantime get in touch with shelter, the council should also allocate you a housing officer and you can provide evidence to support your needs regarding your child and they may bump you up to a higher priority band for the bidding process.

Does your dc have an EHCP? If so you can get transport to the school as long as you are still within the county and that they keep the school as his named setting (you may need to appeal it if you move out of catchment).

Awful situation for you OP. Suggest you get some advice from your local Law Centre or Shelter as you legally cannot be intentionally homeless for leaving at the end of a valid s21 ( as long as the notice has not been served due to your behaviour) Some councils are twats and count on people's lack of knowledge of a niche piece of legislation.

I think it depends very much on your local council and how likely you are to get a property in your chosen area and I have a strong suspicion that the accommodation offered will be temporary and not immediately ideal. In the interests of getting a decent reference from the landlord and being in control of where you end up I would take the best option for you even if it means you travelling to the school for your DS. You could try telling the council your son has special needs and is settled in his current school and see what they suggest.

Eventually you will have to leave so surely leaving on your own terms is better?

Are you paying your rent Soubriquet while you overstay your Section 21? Would this be to your advantage when taken to court eg judge might allow you to stay officially a bit longer?
It may be in OP's interests to find somewhere even if it isn't ideal as the prospect of emergency housing with a special needs child, a new baby and getting over a C-section sounds overwhelming...
Good luck, OP XX

Not sure where you are in the UK... this will make a difference. I work in housing and have done so in homelessness under housing act/legislation. Do not leave. If you genuinely cannot find alternative accommodation yourself and you move in with family etc you will lose any duty that the council owe you under that act. You must stay past your eviction date and let the LL take you to court. Doing this will trigger other sections of the housing act to come into place for which your local authority will be responsible for/need to act on. If offered a property though they may rehouse you anywhere within your county, potentially outside but again it depends where you are and the availability of social housing in your area. Just remember if you cannot find yourself for alternative accommodation and you leave the property in your eviction date then you are on your own...

Also, IME cases are all dealt with on a case by case basis - it may not be that whoever is on the 'list' first gets TA/rehoused first. Make clear to your housing solutions dept that your family has vulnerabilities and make sure you evidence these ASAP.

This is absolute nonsense. You will not "lose" a duty. No other parts of the Act will be "triggered" if you go to court. You are not "on your own" if you stay with people on a temporary basis. Please get some advice from your local Law Centre OP.

I'd stay and keep looking. I'd also try to keep your son the same school. Good schools are a variety for Sen children. Hopefully you will find something before the sale but don't make yourselves homeless