To refuse to leave rented property

[Boymamabee]

I’m having an ethical dilemma thanks to my husband…

I’m heavily pregnant (due a c-section next month) and we’ve been served a two month no-fault notice by our landlord (it’s all valid).

We’re struggling to find rented properties within our price range and although we’re at risk of homelessness, the council can’t guarantee temp accommodation before our notice expires. This makes my husband anxious as he says we have no right to stay in a house we don’t own and it’s unfair on the LL whose sale might fall through.

Places for the same amount of rent, or less, than we currently pay are more rural and would cost more fuel. Many of the local schools don’t have specialised facilities for kids with ASD (think rural schools with 20 students and 2 LSAs) and DS LOVES his school!

This is where it gets tricky…

We’ve been advised that if we stay with family or friends before the LL enacts a court possession order, we could be seen as making ourselves “intentionally homeless”. Likewise if we get ourselves into debt/arrears living somewhere we can’t afford.

I’ve proposed we listen to
their advice and stay put for now, but DH thinks it’s selfish and we’ll naturally find another way to make ends meet. He wants to be out before our contract ends and he feels sorry for the LL who’s going through a divorce.

AIBU?

You DI have a right to stay in the house. A section 21 is just notice of the landlords intention to seek possession. It does not mean you have to leave. If you stay put he then has to go to court which can take months. You need to play this very carefully because if you do leave before he gets a court order you will be making yourself intentionally homeless and the council will not help you.

A section 21 is not notice to vacate. It is notice of a landlords intention to seek possession. It just means that at the expiry date of the notice he can go to court. It doesn't mean the tenant has to leave.

I feel you are right but your husband is right too. It WILL be hard on the LL if you refuse to move out and they will lose their sale. Stories like this will put off other people who may be considering becoming LLs so ultimately, the rental market just gets harder with every tenant who refuses to leave. Also, it will have an effect on your credit rating.

However, ultimately we all have to put ourselves & our families first. It’s a crap situation all round, but if I were you, in your particular situation being heavily pregnant, I would stay put until you have been found alternative accommodation.

That’s not comprehensive and a bit misleading. because I’m sure you know full well the ramifications of not leaving and being court evicted and even having the the bailiffs round to chuck you out in the street.

Do you think it’s in her kids best interests to stay until they are forced to leave and go into temporary accommodation for months? They won’t be able to take most of their stuff or have normal home comforts.

I am a landlord, and as sorry as your husband feels for your landlord, of course you shouldn’t move out before you have somewhere to go.
Councils vary in degree, but they all try to deter applications for re housing due to homelessness to an extent.
In your own interests are you able to find out your local council’s policy?
How likely are they to offer a council or housing association property? If they have a severe shortage and a long waiting list they will explore other options. I know of one council which absolves its responsibility towards homeless people by helping them to obtain a private tenancy, if they deem them to have sufficient income.
If by that stage you have already been evicted you might find that the only private tenancies they can help with are in unpopular locations, where you wouldn’t choose to go.
I hope for your sake that your council is one of the more reasonable ones.
It is unlikely that you will find anywhere that is perfect in every way either privately or via the council.
Nothing will happen soon with the Section 21 procedure so you have time to look at what is most important, and if there are any bearable compromises you can make.
Good luck.

You would leave your LL no option but to pursue eviction through the courts which will cost you money and have a serious affect on your background checks. Needless to say any references would not be favourable.

LakieLady
I worked with homeless or "about to be homeless" families for 10 years, so am familiar with the process.

Do NOT leave until the council has accepted a homeless application from you, and accepted that they have a duty to help you under homelessness legislation.

The point at which they will do this varies from council to council: my council will accept a duty once the S21 notice period has ended, but I have heard anecdotally that some councils insist on waiting until the LL has been to court and got a possession order. Be guided by what they tell you. If you go befor they have accepted a duty, you risk being found "intentionally homeless" and they will not have to help you.

When you make your homeless application, and on any forms you fill in prior to that, make sure you mention your DS's ASD and any other medical/MH/disability/special needs any of you have when answering any health/disability questions. Be prepared to fill in loads of tediious forms too, many of which seem mostly to ask for the same information over and over again.

Even though it may seem unfair to your landlord, to risk being actually homeless and not eligible for any help because you left before you have to would be really reckless. It's tough, but in a country where housing is in short supply, you have to be prepared to be tough to get help.

Good luck, OP, this is a shit situation to be in at any time, but when you're in the late stages of a pregnancy it must be really worrying.
*
Best advice, I'm trying to keep this from getting lost*

It's tough, but in a country where housing is in short supply, you have to be prepared to be tough to get help.

We are expanding our population by thousands all the time taking in more migrants than we can house.
The OP's problem is only going to get worse.

OP I hope you manage to sit tight as advised. Your DH doesn't get it, but you must remain until the council take responsibilty to house you.
Meanwhile I would also contact local HA's and give your medical details. There might a Housing Assoc willing t help.

Good Luck

I am a landlord, and as sorry as your husband feels for your landlord, of course you shouldn’t move out before you have somewhere to go

I think some confusion, the husband is absolutely not suggesting move out with no where to go. He’s saying rent somewhere else a little further away and they can make it work financially. The op doesn’t want to move a bit further out as it could impact schooling or she’d have to spend more on fuel to drive the extra distance.

this is not they can’t rent and the husband thinks they should leave. This is they can rent, just not in the location she’s currently in. He thinks they just need to accept they’ve been priced out and move a little further out. She’s considering staying till eviction.

You are on a discussion forum, discussing is literally what we are meant to do. If you want to have a private conversation with OP you can privately message her.

We’ve had to move from our home town for work for a few years but kept our house. We didn’t sell because we were afraid we wouldn’t be able to afford to buy there again. We rented the house out but after a bad experience with tenants have decided to keep the place empty. It’s just not worth the trouble.
So a perfectly decent house will sit empty for another few years because this landlord has ‘done one.’

@jizzle are you the person I had to get the court ordered bailiff round to evict? You know the house I rented to you for £200 under the market value, when I moved abroad to care for a dying relative. And then when they eventually died after 2 years away, I tried to get back in my house but it was ME who was made homeless because you thought it was going to be your "forever home".

Your attitude and entitlement sounds oddly familiar.

It's not the Landlord's fault you've got no money. You've got no right to be in the house now that the notice has been served. Move to a cheaper area.

Personally we've always been able to rent nice homes because we look after them well and we accept that the nature of renting is that someone may want their property back at some point- and sometimes we have wanted to get out too. consequently we've always had good references - I seriously wouldn't risk being housed by the council because it may not happen and you could end up somewhere totally unsuitable or B&B etc and may run the risk of not being able to get a decent reference as well. 'Im not saying it's right or fair but you can only work with the situation as it is.

No I’m happy to talk to OP on a public forum and give her my opinion ( since she asked) just don’t need you directing your opinions at me because I didn’t ask for them and find your manner abrasive

I’m a LL.

I agree that you should not move out. LLs know that issuing an S21 and giving 2 months notice doesn’t guarantee tenants will go by that point and that they might have to go down the approved legal route to eviction. It is all part and parcel of being a LL.

Yes, it’s annoying for the LL, but you are entitled to the full legal process. Keep paying rent and keep the property decent. And I can’t say I have particular sympathy for this LL - marketing the property and getting a buyer before vacant possession has been achieved is never recommended and always a risky strategy. Exactly what is happening here with the tenant not going is always possible. LLs need to build into their financial planning that there will be a period when the property is vacant and not brining in rent whilst they are marketing it. They have to factor in that getting vacant possession can take longer than normal. It is folly not to do so, and to be honest, driven by greed to be arranging a sale AND receiving rent at the same time. It has to be one or the other.

Keep paying rent. Keep the place decent. Don’t worry about people saying you’ll never get a reference etc. your key consideration is having a roof over your heads and you need the council to house you. Let’s hope they do it quickly and before it goes to court. None of it is nice, but it’s the system you find yourself in Unfortunatley.

I hope you kicked that trash out to the streets in the end. Never ever help anyone out. No mates rates. Most people do not have the ability to educate themselves and get a decent job and rely on others charity and good will. It never pays off. Donate to a large charity rather than helping an individual out.

Then you have misunderstood how forum works. I’m not being abrasive, you just said OP should do what is best for herself and I pointed out that she has kids to consider and it might not be the best solution for them.

You need to take housing that is available, do not listen to those who say to stay beyond your notice date because you can find yourself unable to rent privately again (what landlord would take you on knowing you didn't vacate?) you need to make an appointment with the housing team for advice, taking your section 21 with you and meanwhile work out where you can afford, don't bury your head. I've been an unintentional landlord and my screening agent checked for tenants who refused to leave.

Its very sad that the few social housing properties that become available rarely seem to be allocated to households that try to take personal responsibility. Sit tight til the bailiff comes, and you’ll get temporary housing, and eventually (at least in some areas) you’ll get a social housing property.

Leave when you are requested to, find your own private rented property, pay through the nose for it, and wave bye bye to a council or housing association secure, affordable tenancy. I thought it unfair when I worked in housing, I still think its unfair.

I hope things work out for you OP.

In regards to other private rentals, rent has become extortionate and it’s only marginally cheaper in rural areas. The cost of driving to work, etc., would outweigh the benefits.

There is one appropriate accommodation in a village by DH’s work. It’s £25 cheaper than what we pay now but it would probably mean having to change schools. The school is tiny and has two LSAs and no suitable facilities for ASD kids. His current school has brilliant facilities, including a sensory room and lots of additional support. Maybe the council would fund a taxi but I don’t know. He’s fairly high functioning but typically loves routine. He was unsettled at school so they brought in a “now and later” picture folder for him and an LSA goes over it with him everyday. He’s also hyperlexic and has one-to-one support with reading. His reading age is now well above average.

So I’m not thrilled at the prospect of moving schools.

I would move out because if you don't you will get a terrible reference and this will impact you for years to come. Landlords have their pick of tenants - why blot your record. I would look to move elsewhere - you'll need a reference and I think you'll regret it long term.