Got "told off"- annual leave for teachers strike

[Skyblue81]

Feeling confused. AIBU??

Got 3 kids. Teachers were on strike last Weds & Thurs. School said it would remain open, but changed their minds Weds morning.

I worked from home on Weds with all 3 kids at home. It was exhausting, so I then put in for 2 days annual leave for Thursday (teachers strike) and Friday (to recover from my exhaustion).

Got back to work today to an HR call where I basically got told off for submitting and then taking leave!!!!! Yes OK I didn't give loads of notice, but then neither did my school.

Feeling really beaten-down by my workplace. I work hard, and have earned that annual leave. I took it to take care of my children, then have a recovery day. FFS it's not like I went on a bender to Ibiza!

AIBU???

She absolutely cannot be told off for how she’s spent her annual leave unless it is something illegal or against policy (for example canvassing for a public party when your contract states the need for neutrality).

She asked for leave and it was approved. HR cannot interfere because she wanted a rest day Ffs.

Unless you’re the OP, it doesn’t make any difference what your contract says.

Maybe not, but she asked her employer, her employer said yes. Her line manager had enough chance to say yes, or no, or yes with conditions. But her employer (her boss acting on their behalf in her capacity as a manager) said yes to her. Its some jumped up irrelevant HR busy body making a fuss after the event.

UK Statutory Instruments 1998 No: 1833 Part 2. Working Time Regulations 1998. Regulation 15 relates to both employer and employee in requesting, granting or refusing annual leave.

@Chickenly don't ask questions about it then

@Chickenly

I’ll admit I thought she was given a bollocking, so no she wasn’t berated I’ll give you that.

Frankly, your little analogy expansion is ridiculous.
Your original post was ludicrous to begin with, but if it makes you feel better, sure ok. You seem to be having a difficult day and are very aggressive so I will chose to disengage with you. Hopefully MN will remove your personal attacks on other posters too.

I have never suggested anything of the sort. And I explained that I’m taking a sabbatical with the support of HR. I don’t think it’s necessary for you to explain why you are unable to work currently. It’s fairly self evident. The OP asked if they were unreasonable to be vexed by their employment circumstances surrounding a specific incident. I think they have every reason to feel aggrieved. You disagree. Which is fine. But the vitriol is really not needed. Hope this helps!

Sorry you have had such a rubbish time OP,
This is why parents are often tempted to phone in sick rather than do the honest thing...
If your manager approved it HR shouldnt really be telling you off.
Thursday was unavoidable, Friday perhaps less necessary but your manager approved so don't know why HR are involved.
YANBU to feel peed off, particularly if there's no policy about notice period needed to be given before leave.

Most last minute leave requests are at the manager's discretion. Only they can assess any impact on operations and make an informed decision.

I'd loop my manager into the conversation and ask for clarification of their leave policy, as your manager approved it and had every right to decline.

HR flexing needlessly like this is so irritating when you're an otherwise hard worker, OP.

Oh come on! You don't need to give 20 hrs notice for holidays! Maybe in your job, but other policies & guidelines exist!!

OP discussed it with her manager and her manager approved it!

YANBU OP

YABU.

Fair enough annual leave for strike.

Booking off Friday citing exhaustion at short notice like this is taking the piss.

You are using the strike as an excuse.

This effects anyone who took the day off for the actual strike, because it causes resentment with other employees.

You did not need Friday off. You wanted it off. And then hide behind the excuse of the strikes to legitimise the short notice and because it would be harder to say no to.

So what???
Doesn't matter why or how much AL the OP took, her manager approved it!!

Er, yep, ‘fraid so. Under Working Time Regulations 1998, where there is no alternative contractual agreement on notice of annual leave, an employee is required to give two days notice for every one day of leave requested, plus one day. So for one week’s leave of five working days, you would need to give eleven days notice. If an employer refuses annual leave, they must give as many days notice of refusal, as have been requested as annual leave.

Statutory obligations are a lot longer than 20 hours notice for holidays. It’s mostly up to individual employer policies, but where none exist, the statutory obligation is the back up.

What did HR actually say though, OP. Was it that they said you have done something directly wrong or that you may have felt chastised but the wording doesn't reflect that.

I think for a non emergency reason you were very fortunate that your line manager approved leave with such limited notice. I can't imagine a lot of employers doing the same. YANBU to take it leave that was approved by your line manager but as for the HR conversation who can say, of nobody knows what the wording and purpose actually was.

The situation sounds difficult but ultimately you needed the leave and were grantes ir. If HR spoke to you incorrectly then presumably that can be easily dealt with and apologised for.

Given your manager approved it I'd be expecting them to back you up here. Are HR aware that it was approved prior to being taken? If they're unhappy it should be with your manager, not you

You said exactly that. You said OP should have called in sick and then thought it was hysterical that you can’t call in sick when you’re not sick.

OP asked if she was being unreasonable to be upset that HR asked her to follow the rules. I think she’s being unreasonable. You started being sarcastic and rude (and incorrect to boot) so don’t try to pretend you’re taking the moral high ground.

Agree. People taking accrued leave should always be required to tell their employers exactly what they intend to do with every single second of their company’s precious time. In my day, we got two hours off on the sabbath. Plenty enough time for church, conception, a pint and a strip wash. Then it were straight down pit again. Until you got lung disease and died. But we were right ‘appy. Got any Hovis?

Or, more reasonably, people requesting to take annual leave giving significantly less notice than they should give should only do so when they have a valid reason for giving significantly less notice than they should give.

It’s not about why she took annual leave, it’s about why she gave almost no notice. Almost no notice for unavoidable things is reasonable. Almost no notice for unnecessary things isn’t reasonable. They approved it because they were being a good employer, they’ve simply reminded OP to be a good employee in future. They could’ve said no, they chose to be better than that.

I didn’t. I said she ‘could’ have called in sick. Fact.

And you then wouldn’t accept that it would’ve been illegal for her to do that.

Good point. And well made.

Respectfully, this is rubbish. She asked her boss, and her boss considered every point you've made, workload, fairness and so on an APPROVED her leave. It was her managers job to decide whether to grant holiday, and she decided she could and therefore, would. HR are just sticking their oar in because they have nothing better to do than go round shouting "the policy, the policy" like some stupid jobsworth, Yeah, well, take it up with OP's manager, not OP's problem.

@Skyblue81

Sounds pretty shitty of HR to chastise you and I think you need to bat it back and make it clear that Leave was approved by your Line Manager so they need to take the matter up with her, if there’s an issue. Then forget about it.

However, YABU to post anything in AIBU when you need support. Post in Chat or a specific (Employment) Board would be much better and you’d get more helpful responses. AIBU is over-populated by a selection of arseholes who look for opportunities to have a go at anyone, because in RL they’re saddos with no friends. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Thank you. Given how combative you’ve been on the thread so far I’m shocked you agree.