Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Got "told off"- annual leave for teachers strike

283 replies

Skyblue81 · 20/03/2023 10:31

Feeling confused. AIBU??

Got 3 kids. Teachers were on strike last Weds & Thurs. School said it would remain open, but changed their minds Weds morning.

I worked from home on Weds with all 3 kids at home. It was exhausting, so I then put in for 2 days annual leave for Thursday (teachers strike) and Friday (to recover from my exhaustion).

Got back to work today to an HR call where I basically got told off for submitting and then taking leave!!!!! Yes OK I didn't give loads of notice, but then neither did my school.

Feeling really beaten-down by my workplace. I work hard, and have earned that annual leave. I took it to take care of my children, then have a recovery day. FFS it's not like I went on a bender to Ibiza!

AIBU???

OP posts:
Chubbernut · 20/03/2023 12:37

This reply has been withdrawn

Message withdrawn as it quotes a deleted post.

PsychoCandy23 · 20/03/2023 12:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Are you okay? Seriously? I mean, wow. Just wow!

JupiterFortified · 20/03/2023 12:38

HR are being ridiculous (as they often are).

This sort of thing would make me consider looking for alternative work. I’ve been treated like shit by my employer over leave (albeit compassionate leave rather than annual leave) and I’ve found another job as I can’t be doing with their absolute nonsense.

I feel your pain OP.

Doesthepopeshitinthewoods · 20/03/2023 12:39

The leave was approved. That should be the end of it.

You can request AL for any reason you choose, despite what some twats on here seem to think, and if they approve it then they cannot then go around punishing you afterwards.

Channellingsophistication · 20/03/2023 12:40

If the leave was approved, I don’t understand why there should be an issue. If they were unhappy about it, they shouldn’t have approved it!

Beautiful3 · 20/03/2023 12:41

I feel you. I ended up leaving my job with my first child. They were so inflexible and made work difficult for me. My child attended the work based nursery. They would call me up to take her home early a few times a year, because she was ill. I used toil/annual leave to cover them. HR were understanding, especially as one of them had a child in nursery too. But my manager was intent on telling me off, and frowning at me in front of colleagues. I ended up leaving there after child number 2 (after 8 years), because my manager was so horrible about child care issues.

Chickenly · 20/03/2023 12:41

GoodChat · 20/03/2023 12:32

Then statutory rules apply and you should be giving 2x the length of leave notice. So, for a week off, you should give two weeks notice.

Nope.

Yep 😁

RichardHeed · 20/03/2023 12:42

Chickenly · 20/03/2023 12:21

Of course it’s not illegal to ask for it. But it’s reasonable for them to ask you to stick to the rules even if they did do you a favour by approving it on this occasion. OP broke the rules. Instead of being difficult, they approved it anyway and have asked her not to break the rules again.

Think of a kid at school who has an exam but forgot their pen. The rules say they should have a pen. The school could either say “no pen, fail your exam” or they could lend a pen. In OP’s case, they lent her the pen. That doesn’t mean they can’t say “please don’t forget your pen next time”. No one would be turning around saying “what’s their problem? If they want OP to have brought a pen then they shouldn’t have lent her a pen”. That’s the equivalent. She broke the rules, they accommodated her anyway, they don’t want to have to keep accommodating her so they asked her not to break the rules again.

Show quote history

It’s reasonable for the employer to remind OP of the rules at the time of booking the holidays. This is when the senior manager should have implemented or reminded OP, not several days after the incident. It’s poor management and ever worse HR practice tbh.

Your little analogy doesn’t really work as the situation is more like a child forgetting a pen, teacher giving them a pen then said child being hauled into the headmaster’s office several days later and berated for not bringing in a pen. Rightly everyone would be like wtf is the headmasters problem, why didn’t the teacher simply remind the child at the time.

pickyourown · 20/03/2023 12:42

Don’t understand why people are having a go. It’s your annual leave and can use it any way you like. I have taken days off just so I can be child-free for a bit and recuperate!
I’d be pissed off too OP.

Everanewbie · 20/03/2023 12:43

OP, some of the responses here are nuts. You asked the question, you got an answer and you went through with it. You're at no fault. You were made aware of the situation late. Quoting a policy is all well and good, but life doesn't always run so smoothly. Your email probably came from a 'HR Professional' (I use quotation marks here as HR professional is an oxymoron in my opinion) without kids and without any real life experience.

As long as you're not 'one of those' who has a bad sickness record etc. and you also have a reasonable amount of good books capital with your immediate boss, if I were you I'd respond with something along the lines of:

Dear HR Professional

Thank you for your email. I requested this leave as a result of a last minute change of circumstances that was beyond my control resulting in me needing to provide emergency childcare. My immediate line manager was happy to approve this holiday in full knowledge of the circumstances and the lack of notice I had, and was therefore in turn unable to provide myself. Whilst I will endevour to follow the prescribed procedure in future, you must appreciate why, on this occasion and with my managers approval, flexibility was required.

I trust this is the end of the matter, however please refer any further queries to my manager who approved my leave.

Don't be scared of them, they're jumped up paper tigers with no real power.

labamba007 · 20/03/2023 12:43

You're doing an amazing job, OP ignore the crappy comments. I don't know why HR gave you a tough time. Has your line manager said anything different? Is he/she annoyed with you or just HR?

PsychoCandy23 · 20/03/2023 12:43

Apparently, calling in sick when you’re unable to work is in breach of employment law. Who knew? Not me. That’s for sure. On a happier note, I’m on a sabbatical looking after a critically/terminally I’ll family member. HR have been amazingly kind and supportive. So there are some great HR professionals out there!

ToothHurtie · 20/03/2023 12:44

Beautiful3 · 20/03/2023 12:41

I feel you. I ended up leaving my job with my first child. They were so inflexible and made work difficult for me. My child attended the work based nursery. They would call me up to take her home early a few times a year, because she was ill. I used toil/annual leave to cover them. HR were understanding, especially as one of them had a child in nursery too. But my manager was intent on telling me off, and frowning at me in front of colleagues. I ended up leaving there after child number 2 (after 8 years), because my manager was so horrible about child care issues.

I’m sorry for you but that’s the exact opposite of what has happened to OP. Her manager was flexible and approved her leave and now the villagers want their head on a stick. It’s probably what happened to your manager back before your time and turned them from a flexible, decent person into an inflexible and unsupportive arsehole. How many times should a manager have to sit through getting grief from HR for the sake of supporting employees who throw them under the bus (like everyone here is suggesting)?

Sceptre86 · 20/03/2023 12:44

You haven't done anything wrong if it was authorised. I would have told hr that the lecture wasn't needed as you followed procedure and had it approved. My previous work would say you needed to give at least a weeks notice for leave but it was up to managers discretion. If they then ended up short it was the manager that would get pulled up.

Rosscameasdoody · 20/03/2023 12:44

weirdoboelady · 20/03/2023 12:26

errr...no. Dependants' leave is to arrange emergency cover, not to provide childcare yourself. Refusing DL is, indeed, illegal, but it is for emergencies only. It might be illegal to refuse a second day's DL if you could demonstrate clearly that your arrangements made on day 1 had broken down unexpectedly, creating a second emergency on day 2.

Show quote history

Dependants’ leave can be one or two days, depending on the emergency and the employee needs to let the employer know when they expect to be back at work, because if they cannot return immediately the employer then has the option to grant compassionate leave, which is normally a further 3-5 days. The employer is under no obligation to pay the employee for the time off.

Chickenly · 20/03/2023 12:46

PsychoCandy23 · 20/03/2023 12:43

Apparently, calling in sick when you’re unable to work is in breach of employment law. Who knew? Not me. That’s for sure. On a happier note, I’m on a sabbatical looking after a critically/terminally I’ll family member. HR have been amazingly kind and supportive. So there are some great HR professionals out there!

Yes, calling in sick when you’re not sick is a breach of employment law. Is that news to you?

If you’re looking after a family member then you’re not sick, are you? Did you tell your employer you are sick?

Xenia · 20/03/2023 12:46

I haven't read the full thread but am a lawyer. I was not aware that there are a statutory instrument or statute which says how much notice must be given for annual leave. If there is would someone point me to it?
There might be but I just not know about it.

There might well be "good practice" or guidance or state employee only regulations or handbooks on it but I don't think there is a law about it. I learn new things every day however so would like to know if there is.

Chickenly · 20/03/2023 12:49

RichardHeed · 20/03/2023 12:42

It’s reasonable for the employer to remind OP of the rules at the time of booking the holidays. This is when the senior manager should have implemented or reminded OP, not several days after the incident. It’s poor management and ever worse HR practice tbh.

Your little analogy doesn’t really work as the situation is more like a child forgetting a pen, teacher giving them a pen then said child being hauled into the headmaster’s office several days later and berated for not bringing in a pen. Rightly everyone would be like wtf is the headmasters problem, why didn’t the teacher simply remind the child at the time.

Show quote history

OP wasn’t hauled or berated. It was mentioned the very next time she was at work. Being taken to the head masters office is one of highest levels of dealing with behaviour in a school, OP hasn’t had any mention or action to indicate any form of disciplinary measure. Frankly, your little analogy expansion is ridiculous.

Chickenly · 20/03/2023 12:49

Xenia · 20/03/2023 12:46

I haven't read the full thread but am a lawyer. I was not aware that there are a statutory instrument or statute which says how much notice must be given for annual leave. If there is would someone point me to it?
There might be but I just not know about it.

There might well be "good practice" or guidance or state employee only regulations or handbooks on it but I don't think there is a law about it. I learn new things every day however so would like to know if there is.

It’s been linked up thread, I believe. What kind of lawyer are you?

GoodChat · 20/03/2023 12:50

@Chickenly you're not always right. Do you want me to find my contract of employment and give you the exact terminology? There's no required notice period and it'll be granted or not on the basis of business need at that time.

Chickenly · 20/03/2023 12:50

GoodChat · 20/03/2023 12:50

@Chickenly you're not always right. Do you want me to find my contract of employment and give you the exact terminology? There's no required notice period and it'll be granted or not on the basis of business need at that time.

RTFT

berksandbeyond · 20/03/2023 12:51

I do think the ‘day off to recover’ makes you sound a bit precious and wonder if that’s why you’ve been ‘told off’. It’s not your employers problem that you have 2 jobs, multiple young children and an absent husband

GoodChat · 20/03/2023 12:51

@Chickenly the thread doesn't contain my contract details, bab.

PsychoCandy23 · 20/03/2023 12:53

Chickenly · 20/03/2023 12:46

Yes, calling in sick when you’re not sick is a breach of employment law. Is that news to you?

If you’re looking after a family member then you’re not sick, are you? Did you tell your employer you are sick?

Show quote history

No. I told them a close family member was in critical care. But they’d kind of gleaned that because of the police showing up. They’ve been great, actually. Why is it you’re not working currently? I can only imagine that you’d add a tremendous amount to a harmonious working environment.

Chickenly · 20/03/2023 12:56

PsychoCandy23 · 20/03/2023 12:53

No. I told them a close family member was in critical care. But they’d kind of gleaned that because of the police showing up. They’ve been great, actually. Why is it you’re not working currently? I can only imagine that you’d add a tremendous amount to a harmonious working environment.

Show quote history

So, to be clear, you haven’t called in sick to look after a family member like you suggested OP do? So, your anecdote doesn’t support the idea that employers are very supportive of their employees calling in sick when they are not sick.