Got "told off"- annual leave for teachers strike

[Skyblue81]

Feeling confused. AIBU??

Got 3 kids. Teachers were on strike last Weds & Thurs. School said it would remain open, but changed their minds Weds morning.

I worked from home on Weds with all 3 kids at home. It was exhausting, so I then put in for 2 days annual leave for Thursday (teachers strike) and Friday (to recover from my exhaustion).

Got back to work today to an HR call where I basically got told off for submitting and then taking leave!!!!! Yes OK I didn't give loads of notice, but then neither did my school.

Feeling really beaten-down by my workplace. I work hard, and have earned that annual leave. I took it to take care of my children, then have a recovery day. FFS it's not like I went on a bender to Ibiza!

AIBU???

Thank you for clearly stating from a HR perspective what so many others have tried to! It saddens me that some people on here have or work in HR departments that would behave as the OPs have.

Tbh whilst my work would allow it they would get annoyed at the late notice if I hadn't given them at least a heads up previously that "There are strikes planned for Wed/Thurs. My DDs school is planning to be open on Thursday so I shouldn't need to be off but if they do change their mind last minute I'll need leave. Am I alright to book it as AL as opposed to emergency dependant leave so I can still get paid?".

Also my company's holiday year runs April-April so every year in the last couple of weeks of March people realise they have X holiday hours/days left that they will lose if they don't take in the next week or so and so everyone tries to put holiday requests in last minute ... They can't be refused unless there is a genuine business reason as there is a legal right to them so they have to be allowed but it fucks everyone over because we're even more short staffed and then causes a headache in the office as they have to go through a massive justification process with Head Office as to why they are either paying out the holidays or rolling them over to the next holiday year.

So, assuming that OP’s contract is like every other employment contract and she has to give notice for annual leave (because no one has ever come across that not being the case):

Option 1: She requests annual leave after she’s supposed to. Her manager approves it anyway because she/he isn’t a dick. Things get shifted around and are a little bit stressful and other employers get a bit annoyed that she got away with breaking the rules. HR ask OP not to book leave after the deadline again. Some posters say “but they shouldn’t have approved it if they were going to have a problem afterwards”.

Option 2: She requests annual leave after she’s supposed to. Her line manager denies it because they shouldn’t be approving leave after the deadline because it means things are shifted around at the last minute, other employees find it unfair and because mumsnetters jump down their throats. OP now can’t take annual leave and has no childcare or has to take unpaid leave or has a very stressful time of it all.

Either way, the company are the bad guys - either their hypocrites for approving the leave to do OP a favour when they didn’t have to or they’re dickheads for not approving the leave she needed just to avoid being hypocritical.

I’ll apologise if OP does have a contract that says annual leave can be requested at any point up to the very last minute but I highly doubt that’s the case - and her not answering that does indicate that too.

No one is really being unreasonable. She requested it at the last minute, she probably shouldn’t have but it’s not a major issue. They asked her not to - it’s not like they had her tarred and feathered.

They’re not being v supportive imo. I’d actually ask them about dependants leave policy and tell them next time you’ll take that instead.

If they’re treating you like shit and you feel undervalued or infantalised I’d be tempted to move to a new role.. might be worth looking! X

What has your line manager said? If your manager approved it, then it is their fault, not yours. I am confused!!

I have never come across an employment contract that has any rules on when you can request leave one way or another.

If it’s not explicitly in the contract then the statutory rules apply which is twice as long as the requested length of leave. So, for OP’s two days off, she’d have to give four days notice. Her contract would have to explicitly say that she does not need to give notice in order for her to not have to give notice - like you said, I’ve never, ever, ever, ever seen a contract say that.

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/booking-time-off-

Was there any impact on others when you took the holiday? I'm wondering is someone has complained to HR

How is it unreasonable if the leave was approved? Tell HR they're mistaken as it was approved - ask if the procedure has changed.

As others have said, I guess it depends on your work's policy and also if leave was approved. I work in a school myself (not teacher) and we're allowed one day unpaid leave off to look after DC (for whatever reason) and then expected back in (even with a sick child).

That’s illegal.

it happens op
most places put their foot down on short notice leave

But surely it is not illegal to ask for it?! It is up to the employer if they grant it or not, and the OP's line manager approved it.

Some very odd comments on here. Why would it be better to take unpaid leave, or emergency leave, if you have paid AL to take? You just end up taking more time off.

If the OP's line manager approved the leave, that's all that matters, and it is annoying when someone in HR doesn't have enough to do and wants to make themselves relevant. Sometimes you just need time off at short notice and there are very few office jobs (which I assume the OP has as she could work from home) where it would create a major issue. However, some bosses like to make a thing out of it, especially for women with children. The OP's line manager didn't, and HR should keep their noses out.

It sounds like you requested annual leave after you should’ve done and they approved it as a favour. Despite them doing you that favour, they’re still annoyed that they had to accommodate it so they’ve asked you not to do it again. It’s not a big deal. Like how, when DCs have a birthday party and one parent messages on the morning asking if their kid can come - you invited them in the first place so not problem with them being there (just like they have no problem with you taking your annual leave), you obviously say yes because you can make it work and you don’t want to be a dick (that’s your manager approving the leave) but you’re still annoyed that they didn’t just RSVP by the deadline you gave and instead messaged you that morning (that’s HR being annoyed and telling you so).

God there are some really unpleasant people on here. She’s asked for and had leave approved in line with her company policy. Of course she shouldn’t be badgered about it later. What your company do or what she wanted the leave for are irrelevant

OP said quite clearly - three children, and she works two jobs. And I can quite believe that working from home with three children there is exhausting. And surely the point is that HR are ringing the wrong person - the leave was requested appropriately and approved by line management, so HR should take it up with them if they have a problem.

I have no requirement to give any kind of advance notice of annual leave, I can even request it on the day, although obviously that increases the chance of it not being approved by my manager.

I think it will all depend on your work’s policy for how long you have to give notice for leave. Even if it was approved, if the workplace policy is that you need to give at least 3 days notice, technically you and your manager have been acting in breach of policy.

That said though, as others have said there should be some kind of emergency leave protocol so just make sure you know what you need to do next time, chalk it up to experience and move on.

I feel for you too. Can't believe all the posters telling you off and not being supported when your leave was approved by your line manage and you had discussed it with them. I hope you told HR that you had been told you could have the leave and the reason why you were taking it

If I was admonished for taking approved leave entitlement, I’d be livid. It’s completely not on. Muddying the waters with contractual minutiae and waggy-fingered HR red tape is as irrelevant as it is useless legally. Leave was requested and approved. OP doesn’t need to offer a reason for taking annual leave. That a justification for short notice has even been raised is potentially discriminatory.

I feel for you - it's annoying as anything (my DCs school did similar).
The problem is for the business it's incredibly inconvenient to have staff off at such short notice.

You need to see it from their view and just accept that you've probably made someone's day quite difficult at short notice.
It doesn't matter that the school gave you no notice; the business won't care about that as they're your kids not theirs.

Of course it’s not illegal to ask for it. But it’s reasonable for them to ask you to stick to the rules even if they did do you a favour by approving it on this occasion. OP broke the rules. Instead of being difficult, they approved it anyway and have asked her not to break the rules again.

Think of a kid at school who has an exam but forgot their pen. The rules say they should have a pen. The school could either say “no pen, fail your exam” or they could lend a pen. In OP’s case, they lent her the pen. That doesn’t mean they can’t say “please don’t forget your pen next time”. No one would be turning around saying “what’s their problem? If they want OP to have brought a pen then they shouldn’t have lent her a pen”. That’s the equivalent. She broke the rules, they accommodated her anyway, they don’t want to have to keep accommodating her so they asked her not to break the rules again.

If the manager wasn't supposed to approve the leave, that's between them and their own manager. OP isn't responsible for policing her boss!

I'd call your manager and ask them to speak to HR about berating you for taking agreed leave.