To think truly chaotic messy people don't/can't change?

[houseofchaosandclothes]

I have two small children, a demanding full-time job, a partner with a demanding full-time job and a parent with stage 4 cancer. (I also probably have ADHD but I'm stuck on a waiting list and not sure what difference a diagnosis would make. )

Yet the biggest source of stress in my life is my house. There are clothes everywhere - in laundry baskets waiting to be sorted and washed, in different shaped laundry baskets waiting to be sorted and put away. The toys are out of control. We can spend an hour cleaning the kitchen for one meal time to leave it destroyed.

I have read every thread about housekeeping and organising approaches in the world, and nothing seems to translate. It seems to take me twice as long as all these guides say it should to do something. TOMM is insane: fifteen minutes to do exactly what with a load of laundry? I can throw one in the washing machine in that time but sorting and putting it away will take me 45. We have a cleaner, and I would say spend 3/4 hours a week trying to scoop up the chaos enough she can clean around it. I try to declutter but every inch we reclaim seems to take a day and a half, and my limited annual leave and spare time is better spent with my parents or children. My husband does about 75% of the housework as he is much more efficient but we're still in chaos.

And I have spent YEARS of my life convinced I can change it. I grew up in a somewhat similar house. I'm 40. I have made half-hearted stabs at everything from flylady to a slob comes clean to Marie Kondo and nothing has changed and I'm starting to think that actually all the people who use these methods are not, in fact, the truly chaotic and messy. Or if they are, they don't have jobs/kids/sick parents/all of the above.

So I guess this is my question: has anyone truly messy and chaotic and terrible at housework reformed themselves? Have they done it when they have other things going on? Or are all these approaches just ways for ultimately organised people to get back on track and have nothing to say to the truly messy among us?

I agree , some people will always be messy . Maybe you are in that category. Your story reminds me of my sil, who bought her house 20 years ago. From the first time I saw it, to today, nothing has changed. Mess everywhere. In those 20 years she has gone from " two incomes, no kids" to " one income, two grown kids" . And the house remains in a mess . I've had the same family situations as she has, but my place has never been messy. I don't have any suggestions - if you can't change, there's not much you can do .

The word that jumps out is "declutter" - if you have more stuff than you have room to tidy it away in, keeping a place clean and tidy is impossible. A family of four living in a smallish flat needs as much stuff as a family of four in a spacious house but doesn't have the room to store it properly.

The way to keep somewhere clean is pack everything away that doesn't need to be on display. Then it's just a case of wiping down surfaces quickly and regularly. Problems occur when you're like me and there simply isn't room to move things away to.

Take a look at your kitchen. What's on display? It should only be sink/fridge/cooker/microwave/kettle, work surfaces should be clear. Plates, cooking utensils, food mixers, toasters and anything else need to be packed away when not in use. If you can't pack it away, and can't throw it away, it'll never be possible to keep the place clean and tidy.

Yep I absolutely agree! I have stopped thinking that one day I will wake up a new, tidy, organised person because I am setting myself up for failure.

Maybe you need to get a professional declutter person in to help you? Perhaps if you had a blank slate and an organised system, you'd be able to keep it that way? It may just be that you can't fight your way out of the pickle you're in and need someone to help you get started?

OP how do you find having the cleaner? For so long I’ve toyed with it but I’d need someone very open minded and flexible.

Is the stress the night before worth it?

The biggest thing I have found makes a difference is doing a "power half hour" we call it in my house. Like last night. The kitchen was a state, there were toys out and clothes on the floor in various rooms. It was 8.30pm and me and my DP were knackered after having both been at work and we just wanted to chill in front of TV. But I said "Right, lets see what we can get done in 30 minutes, and then we meet back here on sofa at 9pm for an hour of TV before bed".

He tackled the kitchen (and in that time was able to unload and reload dishwasher, and do the rest of the washing up), clear the sides and empty the bin.

I put toys away, books back on shelves, and put clothes away. In 30 minutes we met back in the living room with the house in a much better state than it was (not immaculate by any means but enough for us to feel a bit more relaxed and like we'd achieved something) and we enjoyed the rest of our evening.

There will never be a state of perfect cleanliness in a family home with working parents, but instead of thinking "There is too much to do, its too overwhelming" you just have to try and do what you can in a set amount of time. Its surprising how much you can get done in 30 mins. I refuse to spend all my spare time cleaning and tidying.

Fewer clothes each? Then you will have to sort / put away as otherwise people will run out of clothes. Wear non underwear things more before you wash them to save laundry time.

Fewer toys / only let them get new ones out once others are put away?

I'm a very messy and untidy person. But I have changed to the extent I have strategies in place that make me tidy up and keep on top of things. I feel much calmer when I do these things. So, in answer to your question I think it is possible to change. Lurking below the surface I'm still chaotic and left to my own devices my home would look like there had been a burglary.

Have you tried A Slob Comes Clean? I read her books and watch her YouTube videos. My house was really bad but it’s so much better now. I don’t know what it is about her system that clicked for me when none of the others did, but I think she’s great especially for those of us with ADHD.

Without knowing you and your house intimately I don’t think anyone can say. I would say I’m similar in that my house has been low-level messy for years despite resolutions to change it. The things I do that work are when I’ve really taken the time to stop and analyse what makes a specific area go from tidy to messy.

We tend to think of it as “mess needs to be tidied” without breaking that down. Is it that the post gets put on the side until it’s a mountain? Why does it get put there/where would be better/how can you make the “better” thing easier than the “messy” thing?
Is it that the DC get every toy out at once? What’s happening in the house at that moment? What happens next? Etc until you’ve gradually & eventually been through every aspect of what “messy” means.

the book Atomic Habits helped me. And thinking about how to make the desirable habit/behaviour easy, and then easier still, until you’re practically forced to do it.

Game changer for me was telling myself that every job is actually two jobs- the thing and then the tidying up after the thing. Just really consciously addressing that second job makes a big difference for me- so saying to myself that now I've done job 1 and it's time for job 2. I used to tackle a task (laundry, say) and then start something else before I'd put everything away, then feel surprised that other people manage not to have laundry everywhere whereas mine was always in piles. Or admin- 2 jobs, one of doing the admin and another of tidying up the paperwork and filing everything. My problem before was that I was always keen to get on with the next thing, so I'd reach a pause and then get distracted by something else. Just being really conscious and clear with myself that the next job on the list after "X" is "tidying up after X" and that that's a good and legitimate use of my time has really helped.

Also recognising chores that just weren't really on the radar. Why is it my friend has a lovely tidy car while mine is really messy? Turns out (drum roll) it's because she tidies it! I think the difference between people who are naturally tidy and the rest of us is just that they tidy up, whereas us natural messies make a mess and then fret about it.

Can you tackle a couple of the surfaces in the main room you spend time in. Then tackle the drawers/more hidden areas. Work through the house that way. My natural inclination is to leave it, but it got to the point that if I did not tackle it things would always be messy.

Basically people who stress about mess are mostly empty heads or anxious nuts. Do what you can. If someone judges you. Kick them out of your life.

I have ADHD and am awfully messy. I’m perfectly functional in other areas of my life (three degrees, ‘high-powered’ job, good mother etc etc) but have struggled my entire life with tidying.

I suggest you look up Struggle Care - a lady who does social media/YouTube/blogs about tidying for people with functional barriers like ADHD. She’s even written a short book of tips (I got from Amazon) called How to Keep House While Drowning.

If nothing else it’ll make you realise that you’re not the only one, and that the majority of advice that people give really doesn’t work for ‘us’ - it doesn’t mean we’re a failure.

It’s certainly helped me, and while I’ll never be Marie Kondo, the improvement has been incredible - both practically and mentally.

@Adhdsucks I would say yes, the stress of the cleaner coming is absolutely worth it. Actually part of why I'm driven to posting is the cleaner has been sick and the difference in her not being here has tipped me over the edge.

For those suggesting a professional declutter, I have considered it, but all anyone near me seems to do is give you advise. I need someone to stand next to me with bin bags. I'm at the point where I think it I had Stacy Solomon putting al our belongings in a warehouse I'd cheerfully get rid of most of it, but the bandwidth to arrange disposal is beyond me. I did once live abroad somewhere I'd travelled to with only a suitcase and it was incredibly calm and peaceful and manageable. And we definitely need more clothes. But I've only just moved from having a baby who goes up a size every 3 months to one who goes up a size every six months and the rigmarole of clothes that need to go to the attic for the next one, or to whatever neighbour/friend/charity will use them, is definitely adding to the craziness.

A power half hour is a good idea. Its just it feels like running to stand still.

We have too many toys (most of them presents), too many clothes (many of them hand-me-downs)and at the weekends we want to take the children swimming/to grandparents/ hang out and chill. I think I in part hate the relentless monotony of it all. We did for a while ask our cleaner to fold and put away laundry, she did the folding part, but it didn't really work well. Genuinely, if clothes appeared as if by magic clean and folded in drawers I think 90% of the rest of it would be manageable.

It does sound as if the problem is too much 'stuff', including clothes. Are you doing too much laundry - wearing clothes once then washing? We have clean socks and underwear every day but unless clothes get dirty/smelly they're worn for several days before washing.

Toys - if there are too many, could you store half and rotate every few months or better still just get rid of the excess.

Kitchen mess - maybe bulk cook simple meals like chilli, bolognese, soup, cottage pie, freeze the excess then on busy nights all you have to do is cook the pasta and make a salad or chuck some frozen peas in the microwave.

I find setting a timer for 30 minutes, sticking some music or a radio drama on and just doing housework until the timer beeps keeps me focused. I can have a load of laundry on, tidy, dust and hoover a room and load the dishwasher in that time.

I try and keep the house clean and tidy because I feel stressed and miserable if it's not, so it is a priority.

I found that having as little clothes as possible was a solution. I still do the same. There's minimal sorting etc then. I have to live very minimally, or I would live in chaos. It's easy now I don't have children. Messiness was a factor of my eldest DD's ADHD, procastrination is one of mine. She has had to be very disciplined and treat the house as she does tasks in work. Routine helped both of us and was what my autistic youngest needed. But tbh, you might have to wait until your children are a bit older.

We sometimes do a 'put 10 things away each' which between 3 of us makes a noticeable difference to one room.

@StepHigh Actually the job 1/job 2 idea resonates. We stayed with my mother-in-law for a while and it was fascinating how she just constantly cleaned up. Her house is lovely and restful, but, if people are over for lunch the won't leave the tidy up till they've gone, she just automatically loads the dishwasher/clears the table. If there's a wash on, she will hang it out and factor that into her plans, when she returns from holiday the suitcase is emptied and wash is on immediately. My husband has gone on a work trip to discover on getting the wheelie suitcase down its full of clothes from the last trip!

I do think part of it is genuinely not 'seeing' it - I see the overall effect, but I can walk over junk mail in the hallway for days and its like it won't occur to me to pick it up and put it in the bin. I don't have another way to describe it.

I’m a very messy person. What I’ve realised - I have too much stuff. Non- messy people will think about storage before a thing enters their house in the first place. I do not.

I can walk past things, non- messy people can’t. They tidy as they go, a few extra seconds as they go along, but I tend to save it all up then it takes half an hour to shift things that shouldn’t be there in the first place.

im trying to think about what I do with things before I put them down. I’m trying not to walk past things like shoes and bags in the wrong place.

really I have the mindset of someone who needs an army of staff, yet it’s just me.

Yes disorganised people can become organised, but its a skill, and if you weren't brought up to it, it's one you would have to learn. But seriously, you have so much on your plate already. Your parents prognosis alone is enough to fill most people's headspace, then a full time job and family on top. That's a very tough time.
Unless your house is really getting you down, give yourself a break for now. There's plenty of time to learn those skills when life settles a bit.

Yeah I think you're right.

Essy people can't be changed because I read these threads and always think, how?

How can you possibly find it difficult?

How can it take 45 min to do a 5 min job?

So I think you probably just have to accept it and learn not to let it get to you.

The problem I found when my house was messy was that it was ALL stress from searching for socks in the morning, trying to find my car keys, to not being able to find a clean spoon. Now my house is under control I can really see how much the mess affected us all but mostly how it affected and overwhelmed me.

I really do recommend a Slob Comes Clean. She has a no-mess decluttering system that means you can’t fail. Two things I really realised are procrasti-clutter, like not emptying the bins when they are full or not putting the clean laundry away or not emptying the dishwasher. These small jobs take a few minutes but make a huge difference to my house. Also, what she calls duhs. Getting rid of things I thought I needed but now realize I didn’t need and that frees up space for the stuff I actually need.

Same. I am tidier but deep down I am still basically chaotic. Was a ridiculously untidy child and teen. I tidy now because nobody else will. Am permanently decluttering and revising my inadequate systems.

This is so simple but you're right, I need to do this!

I could have written the OP myself. I'm currently in my living room looking at MN while part way through loads of jobs.

Sofa cushions in the floor as I've just put covers in the washing machine ails be the first thing to move ...