To think truly chaotic messy people don't/can't change?

[houseofchaosandclothes]

I have two small children, a demanding full-time job, a partner with a demanding full-time job and a parent with stage 4 cancer. (I also probably have ADHD but I'm stuck on a waiting list and not sure what difference a diagnosis would make. )

Yet the biggest source of stress in my life is my house. There are clothes everywhere - in laundry baskets waiting to be sorted and washed, in different shaped laundry baskets waiting to be sorted and put away. The toys are out of control. We can spend an hour cleaning the kitchen for one meal time to leave it destroyed.

I have read every thread about housekeeping and organising approaches in the world, and nothing seems to translate. It seems to take me twice as long as all these guides say it should to do something. TOMM is insane: fifteen minutes to do exactly what with a load of laundry? I can throw one in the washing machine in that time but sorting and putting it away will take me 45. We have a cleaner, and I would say spend 3/4 hours a week trying to scoop up the chaos enough she can clean around it. I try to declutter but every inch we reclaim seems to take a day and a half, and my limited annual leave and spare time is better spent with my parents or children. My husband does about 75% of the housework as he is much more efficient but we're still in chaos.

And I have spent YEARS of my life convinced I can change it. I grew up in a somewhat similar house. I'm 40. I have made half-hearted stabs at everything from flylady to a slob comes clean to Marie Kondo and nothing has changed and I'm starting to think that actually all the people who use these methods are not, in fact, the truly chaotic and messy. Or if they are, they don't have jobs/kids/sick parents/all of the above.

So I guess this is my question: has anyone truly messy and chaotic and terrible at housework reformed themselves? Have they done it when they have other things going on? Or are all these approaches just ways for ultimately organised people to get back on track and have nothing to say to the truly messy among us?

Sorry I have come back to your posts OP - You say you want Stacey Solomon to put all your stuff in a warehouse.

What's helped me with this is identifying nearby places that I can get rid of things quickly and easily. So I have completely stopped bothering with ebay/vinted to get rid of old clothing - it takes too long. I had a backlog of loads of kid's stuff, and I happened to see an advert for a baby/children's-specific jumble sale so I booked a table there and I'm taking all the clothes and the outgrown baby stuff and I went through all the toys and put all the outgrown/duplicate/unwanted ones in boxes. I'm going to do that this weekend and I've asked DH as soon as it's finished to drive me straight to the nearest charity shop and I will donate everything that is left over. It is NOT coming back into the house!

For other stuff - we have a clothing bank at the end of the road, a book box around the corner. I offer stuff on the local buy nothing page but if it's not taken within a week I take it to these places. Then there is a general secondhand shop which takes everything, even soft toys. I have a bag-for-life on the go at all times and tidy things into it as and when I realise they are to go. When it gets full I put it on the buggy and the next weekday we go to the shop and drop it off. There is another, larger branch of this shop just outside of town and when I have a huge amount of stuff I fill up a box or two and get DH to drive me there to drop it off.

This approach has helped SO much because before I would hang onto things for ages trying to dispose of it in the "best" way or procrastinating about taking it anywhere and it just was all still in my house taking up space and breeding carpet beetles and moths.

Another recommendation for the podcast a slob comes clean.
Start at the beginning of the podcasts and listen to them as you clean. She talks about establishing good habits, making small steps to making your house better and more under control and not expecting perfection.
The later podcasts I didn't really like, she talks to other people about their household and habits etc, but these might appeal to you.
Sounds like you just have too much stuff- also love the Stacey Solomon programme, so maybe try that but on a mini scale. Donate stuff, don't sell it, it's too much work.
Take photos of any progress made and try to put things away in groups, so you can keep track of what you have.

I can't seem to change my ways. So I bought a big house and have spare rooms I shove everything in when someone comes round to pretend I'm not as messy as I am. I have whole plans devised around what goes where when I have visitors. I hate it but I can't seem to get on top of it,
I also have a spare living room that is untouched outside of guests which is pretty shameful but works.

I started to make waves when I met my rather orderly and tidy dh but since having dc I found myself back in a mess again. I have been mocked and shamed in the past by various people about it and wish I didn't have to be this way but I have no idea how to change and oh have I tried!
Big house appears to be the way forward 😅

in different shaped laundry baskets waiting to be sorted and put away.

In this particular instance, it's sort of you making more work for yourself. If you separated out the stuff as you took it down from the drying rack, it would already be sorted by this point. By not sorting it at that stage, you're essentially making one job (laundry from drying rack to wardrobe/drawers) into two separate jobs (take from the drying rack into laundry baskets, take it out from laundry basket and sort). There may be other things you're making similar work for yourself with.

I agree with others saying donate don't sell. I mean obviously it's great if you can sell some stuff and get extra cash BUT it's often associated with a right carry-on with people not picking up the items or whatever, or having to go and post them.
If you're drowning under clutter it could take forever to get rid of stuff. This happened to me recently when I wanted to sell some old furniture to make space for new. What a nightmare that was - so in the end, I'm afraid the furniture had to go to the tip.
Same with clothes and other smaller items. If you are really trying to de-clutter, just get rid of it - donate or recycle. Otherwise it will just sit in bags for months on end and become part of the problem.

This is how I do it

Solidarity. I'm the same. I can clean, and declutter. Follow any and all systems.

My house is a shit hole. There's no clean dishes. No clean pants. And stuff everywhere.

Also have ADHD.

Getting the teens to help is impossible. How can I teach them to do something I can't do myself.

I voted YABU but in a kind way. I'm horribly disorganised and went straight from living at home as a very young woman never having to think about washing or cleaning because my mum did it all (or cooking as my dad did it all), to being 21 and having a household and baby (then 3 DC) to look after.

It has been a LONG learning curve for me, my partner likes to tidy but like you has ADHD so it's difficult between both of us and the house is far from perfect. But keep working on it.

You have to learn to be kind of ruthless. Especially with the kitchen. Your life has to become focused (at least for a while, maybe forever?) on your priority of a clean home. My DC are now aged 3 - 7 and I'm finding it easier and easier to stay on top of their mess. Books can actually be put on the child level bookshelf and don't end up pulled down within 5 minutes.

I digress. Decluttering is super important, not only decluttering things you don't need, but also taking a minimalist approach to things you do need. If toys are everywhere all the time, you either need to have less, or you need to put a good chunk away in storage and rotate them. I agree with Marie Kondo about decluttering, but not her stance on storage. Have plenty of storage and have it assigned for purposes. We have plenty of clothes storage, it's not always organised but it's full of clean clothes. We limit crockery and pots and pans in the kitchen, that means if you've cooked something in a pot and want to cook something else, you need to get washing up.

Adequate storage is really good I reckon for people with this type of mindset, because if you're anything like me, you struggle to do day to day things frequently, but then get sudden bursts of hyper focused nestiness. So as long as day to day I can chuck things into appropriate storage, I know I will at some point be overcome with an urge to pair every misplaced sock, bag up all clothes no longer needed and take them for donation, sort each toy box so every single block of lego is in the right box, etc etc.

It's a struggle OP but don't give up. Again like you, while keeping house is a constant struggle, the different it makes to our mind set and quality of life is huge and unequalled.

I have a declutter business and from working with clients I always say before I start they need an infrastructure to carry on the work I’ve done. It’s unrealistic to think they will be able to carry on what I’ve done but if the right infrastructure is put in it’s possible

@CandlelightGlow do you work? I was my most tidiest pre dc and when dc were little I didn't work so found it much easier to defo ate more time to being tidy. Now I'm back working plus family stuff to get done I find it impossible.

What's helped me with this is identifying nearby places that I can get rid of things quickly and easily. So I have completely stopped bothering with ebay/vinted to get rid of old clothing - it takes too long. I had a backlog of loads of kid's stuff, and I happened to see an advert for a baby/children's-specific jumble sale so I booked a table there and I'm taking all the clothes and the outgrown baby stuff and I went through all the toys and put all the outgrown/duplicate/unwanted ones in boxes. I'm going to do that this weekend and I've asked DH as soon as it's finished to drive me straight to the nearest charity shop and I will donate everything that is left over. It is NOT coming back into the house!

I completely agree with @BertieBotts about having actually achievable methods of getting rid of stuff. My DP is very sweet and eco conscious, but his ADHD means he will frequently not see through decluttering jobs. I am very pro stuff anti clutter, meaning I have to be, again, kind of ruthless and ensure that things are got rid of. It's an expense but honestly, hire a van or skip to get everything you don't need out in one go.

Think about every single thing (at your own pace) that a house needs, and how you can ensure you have it but in a way that fits into your home. Toiletries, appliances, household cleaning products, clothes, toys, books, trinkets, upholstery, ornaments. Another trick I have to help my mind see what needs to be done is to not only identify what I need but I identify exactly where it will live. That goes for everything from kids toys to a big hoover to Christmas decorations.

It WILL fall into place. My house is still somewhere i would often baulk at someone coming into unannounced, but only because of clutter. I think we do have to accept with DC though there will always be some level of unwanted clutter.

Yes, you can change. Get that diagnosis and start medication. I moved to a house twice the size, still messed it up! Not until I got my ADHD under control could I manage my house/life/stuff!

@binnybonny yes and unfortunately, I work from home so there's always people in the house to generate mess and clutter, absolutely never any time where the poor house isn't being messed up!!

I try to use this to my advantage now, but keeping on top of the laundry during the week, hoovering during a 5 minute break, things like that. But I'm very prone to vegetate and forget to do these things.

Not sure where I read the idea but we do a room a day - so Mondays the kitchen, Tuesday the bathroom etc. Nothing at the weekend! Not totally thoroughly I may add but the main jobs in that room then an extra. So, one week on kitchen Monday I'll clean the oven in addition to the usual stuff, or tackle one of the cupboards. It works because our house is pretty small tbh. Some days are particularly busy and it doesn't get done but then there's always the week after!
Also making sure items have a home and get put away after being used. My tweenager was forever not being able to find things and he's now got a huge wall of ikea peg boards that hold his sports stuff, watch, camera etc. It means no lost mouthguards, gloves etc. when we're running out the door to sports practice. 😌

I think ruthless decluttering is the answer. Its easy to clean a shelf that onlybgas one ornament on it

And "little and often" for most tasks

Another vote here for A slob Comes Clean. She mostly focuses on decluttering more these days, but you might get something out of her first book, How to Manage Your Home Without Losing Your Mind. She's never had a diagnosis but I think many people believe she has ADHD (i see a lot of the traits in her!). But it definitely sounds like you have way too much stuff. Pretty sure you can still apply forSort Your life Out too!

If you are really desperately in the weeds, start with KC Davis - she has ADHD so she gets it, but she is also great for anyone with chronic illness, mental health issues etc.

I used to have a friend whose house was dire, you had to step over a floor awash with stuff. She made many protestations that she wanted to sort it out. She couldn’t drive so I offered to take all the bin liners of clothes she said she had stacked in her bedroom. I didn’t see them but she had at least a dozen. She said she needed to wash it all first. She had no intention of ever doing it and was a hoarder really.

The key is to just have a lot less stuff, I had a number of years of being too busy and then unwell it was never terrible but it’s amazing how much stuff is accumulated over the years. We now have every room fine expect my bedroom is not quite finished, clothes need going through and the loft needs tackling.

Good luck op, be utterly brutal with getting rid of stuff.

@CandlelightGlow ah wfh I find easier to stay on top of things as can take more time than say, eat breakfast then have to dash for train leaving plate out.

As I've said I am not really ever on top of things even though I wfh now as well so well done you! Good luck OP. I'm also frantically writing down notes on this.

Totally WFH can ease those pressures It sounds like you are doing great! I still look at pictures from when my first DC is a toddler as I was on mat leave/working very part time and I can't believe I thought our house was messy back then 😳 It looks so neat!

So let's all remember our goals but remember we're doing our best and are up against it! We have piles of laundry to sort because our DC have clothes washed for them, piles of dishes because everyone's being well fed, toys and crafts everywhere because we want our DCs to have great experiences.

I am like you OP. We've moved house recently and one thing that really helps is having more space to put things away, but the children especially still have too many toys and clothes.

I can't follow things like the OMM to the letter as i just don't her the focus (and all the shit about shining shoes and your sink is beyond me entirely) but I found little tips like keeping wipes in the bathroom and always doing a whip round the sink and toilet every time you go to be really helpful.

This thread has also helped a bit. Lots of idea. Agree with the job 1/job 2 thing. I've started a bit of that lately with keeping on top of the kitchen and it's really helped my mental health

We are hopeless, too.

I pay for a cleaner / housekeeper. She tidies as well as cleans. She irons and puts away. She organises our drawers.

I also pay a declutterer to sort us out at obvious moments … after Christmas, the end of the summer holidays.

I consider this a kind of tax on us being untidy and disorganised.

I do my best —we both do—but, as a couple, we are totally chaotic. This keeps us functioning as a family.

Firstly, I’m sorry to hear about your diagnosis. That must be shit, so be kind to yourself.

Secondly, you are absolutely right about chaotic, disorganised people. I once dumped an otherwise lovely guy because his flat was a filthy, unhygienic shit-tip. However nice he was, I knew I could never live like that so the relationship had no future.

Never read something more ME! Sorry about your ill parent.

We moved house and our last house was a similar story but it seemed like because it was smaller there was less space for stuff to be. We have a utility room in the new house and since we moved in a year ago it’s just been rammed full of boxes. Why in 365 days I haven’t found the time to do anything with any of these boxes that we clearly don’t need, I do not know. I’ve got all my toddler’s baby clothes filling a cupboard and don’t know what to do with them. I’ve got every item of clothing I’ve ever bought for the last 10+ years that I’ve kept. I have endless loads of washings and clothes covering the floor in the utility room as I just can’t seem to get ahead of it. I still have every make up item I’ve ever bought all thrown in one big box so I can’t actually use any of it because it’s all such a mess. My toddler keeps pulling random things out the box and ruining them too.

Like you, I grew up in a similar house. Cleaning was never a massive priority although the house wasn’t dirty. I had a cleaner until a few weeks ago but I found it was taking me so long to put stuff away for her coming that I started thinking id be as well just cleaning it too if I’m going to all this effort! I think my conclusion is the fact I have too much stuff. If I could strip my house right back to a small number of clothes each that we wear. A small pile of towels that we use. A small number of shoes that we wear etc, it would be so much easier to keep on top of everything. I need to do a major declutter to the point of just being extreme with it, even if some of the stuff is good stuff!

I also say wear clothes several times before they need a wash, only pants and socks in the basket after one wear.
In Germany the Kinderflohmarkt season has started and I'm getting rid of stuff that way, I've decided clothes and shoes that don't sell are going on the entrance table in the Kindergarten and people can help themselves.

I think the ADHD must be the issue here.

I am like your mil, organised. No stress. I don't have a to-do-list because I just action everything immediately. As soon as the school email comes in, I read it, put all the dates in the calendar and then I'm done. I don't have to think about it again.

My washing basket is normally empty, as soon as there's enough washing I put a load, dried, folded and put away. I empty the bin and recycling bin as soon as they are full. It's all done within a few minutes . I have a eufy which hoovers twice a week. As soon as we finish dinner I load the dishwasher, and then the kitchen is thus clean. The house is never spotless but it's always presentable.