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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think truly chaotic messy people don't/can't change?

135 replies

houseofchaosandclothes · 16/03/2023 14:51

I have two small children, a demanding full-time job, a partner with a demanding full-time job and a parent with stage 4 cancer. (I also probably have ADHD but I'm stuck on a waiting list and not sure what difference a diagnosis would make. )

Yet the biggest source of stress in my life is my house. There are clothes everywhere - in laundry baskets waiting to be sorted and washed, in different shaped laundry baskets waiting to be sorted and put away. The toys are out of control. We can spend an hour cleaning the kitchen for one meal time to leave it destroyed.

I have read every thread about housekeeping and organising approaches in the world, and nothing seems to translate. It seems to take me twice as long as all these guides say it should to do something. TOMM is insane: fifteen minutes to do exactly what with a load of laundry? I can throw one in the washing machine in that time but sorting and putting it away will take me 45. We have a cleaner, and I would say spend 3/4 hours a week trying to scoop up the chaos enough she can clean around it. I try to declutter but every inch we reclaim seems to take a day and a half, and my limited annual leave and spare time is better spent with my parents or children. My husband does about 75% of the housework as he is much more efficient but we're still in chaos.

And I have spent YEARS of my life convinced I can change it. I grew up in a somewhat similar house. I'm 40. I have made half-hearted stabs at everything from flylady to a slob comes clean to Marie Kondo and nothing has changed and I'm starting to think that actually all the people who use these methods are not, in fact, the truly chaotic and messy. Or if they are, they don't have jobs/kids/sick parents/all of the above.

So I guess this is my question: has anyone truly messy and chaotic and terrible at housework reformed themselves? Have they done it when they have other things going on? Or are all these approaches just ways for ultimately organised people to get back on track and have nothing to say to the truly messy among us?

OP posts:
DorritLittle · 16/03/2023 15:41

you have so much on your plate already. Your parents prognosis alone is enough to fill most people's headspace, then a full time job and family on top. That's a very tough time.

But also totally this, give yourself a break 💐

MilliwaysUniverse · 16/03/2023 15:43

If you have ADHD then it is more likely that you will be messy and chaotic, and there is also a link between ADHD and hoarding, which can be mild collections of clutter to full on full houses of clutter. It is very difficult to change when you have ADHD.

Flowersinmai · 16/03/2023 15:44

Fellow adhd er here 👋 Part of the solution for me is to try and have less stuff. I don’t always succeed.
Keep the cleaner.
With small children there is always more clutter.
Dont sell things. Just give them away in the most convenient way - charity Shop, gratis Sign on the street, etc.
I also have some set rules - only a couple - 1 bathroom has containers to hold things. Someone this looks more tidy than lots of pots/tubes on surfaces. Empty toilet rolls go in the laundry basket and are then recycled/binned.
There are adhd Instagram accounts there that Focus in being kind and lowering expectations. It’s a constant battle! Less possessions definitely helps.

Adhdsucks · 16/03/2023 15:45

Do be kind to yourself OP.

AaaaaandBreathe · 16/03/2023 15:46

pompomdaisy · 16/03/2023 15:30

Basically people who stress about mess are mostly empty heads or anxious nuts. Do what you can. If someone judges you. Kick them out of your life.

Pardon? Sounds like you're the one judging.

ittakes2 · 16/03/2023 15:46

I have ADHD and I have improved dramatically since I was diagnosed because its help me acknowledge my weaknesses and spend more time on them.
Let me ask you something.
When you are doing something you like or need to...do you visualise the steps to get the job done? Ie to clean this hall I am going to do X and X and X?
I discovered in therapy I was not visualising the processes for everyday stuff. ie really sit down and go - this is what I want this table to look like permanently...what steps do I need to do everyday to keep it this way?
And to be honest with ADHD the only chance you will ever really have at being tidy is to reduce what you own. Less stuff + less mess.

SpookyBlackCat · 16/03/2023 15:46

5-minute jobs do take 45 minutes when you put them off though. Folding and putting away one load of laundry takes 5/10 minutes but if you keep putting it off and have 2 weeks worth plus loads of stuff that you don’t know where it goes, it turns into a 45-minute job easily.

My kitchen used to really stress me out but now I do a few minutes here and a few minutes there and that’s enough to keep on top of it mostly but getting rid of a lot of clutter really helped because now I know where everything goes and I know it all fits in the cupboard/drawer so I don’t need to stress about it anymore. I can just quickly put it away and it’s done. So I can definitely see now the big difference between organized people and disorganized people and how they think/act.

ittakes2 · 16/03/2023 15:46

Less stuff = less mess

StepHigh · 16/03/2023 15:53

I can walk over junk mail in the hallway for days and its like it won't occur to me to pick it up and put it in the bin.

This was me too.

It's definitely possible to change but it takes consistent effort. I'm much better than I used to be but even now from where I'm sitting I can see a vase of dead flowers I've been meaning to chuck out for days.

At the risk of being too psychological- were you told off for being messy as a kid? I think a lot of us grow up associating tidying up with having been messy and bad, and it's a sort of block to becoming tidier.

Ihatethenewlook · 16/03/2023 16:02

Botw1 · 16/03/2023 15:38

Yeah I think you're right.

Essy people can't be changed because I read these threads and always think, how?

How can you possibly find it difficult?

How can it take 45 min to do a 5 min job?

So I think you probably just have to accept it and learn not to let it get to you.

That’s what I was thinking. My oh is like this, there’s no sense of urgency from him when it comes to chores. I get frustrated when we’re cleaning the house together, as I will have come downstairs after completely blitzing the upstairs in 45 mins (including bleaching the bathroom), and he’s still stuck on washing and putting away the dishes downstairs which would have taken me just over 5.
You’re saying it takes you 15 mins to put a wash on op, I’ll pick out a light/dark wash from the basket, throw it in with a tablet and have it going in 30 seconds. And how does putting 1 load away take 45 mins? 5 seconds to pull the clothes out the dryer, less than 2 minutes to fold into potentially 6 piles (5 humans and linen closet), and 5 minutes max to put on hangers and put away in the correct rooms. I think you’ll have to accept it’s just the way you are 🤷🏼‍♀️

WonderingWanda · 16/03/2023 16:03

Be kind to yourself op. You have a lot going on and it's hard work just managing day to day life let alone managing the stuff which arrives in your house with young children. My biggest tip is try and make getting stuff out your house a habit. Know where your nearest clothing bins / charity shops are.

Get some big bin bags, go through each child's wardrobe and be ruthless with anything they have outgrown. Do the same with the toys and the books.

Have a day each where you can go and drop of at a charity shop / take stuff to the tip / put it in recycling bins. I take it straight out of the house and put it in the boot of my car then once a week get rid of it all.

Get rid of half done craft and colouring books if that sort of stuff is out of control too. Bin anything broken.

Get everyone their own laundry bin. That way you just wash one person's stuff at a time so no sorting. If you tumble it most of it can get put away without ironing anyway. So bung it in the wash in the morning, tumble or drying rack when you get home and then back into the bin and upstairs after tea (or next day of drying rack /line and put away.

DevonSunsets · 16/03/2023 16:07

I lived in low grade filth. Floordrobe. nasty bathroom, what was a vaccum? Threw out crockery rather than cleaning it (because it had gone nasty in the sink water slime) I had a super busy life and just didn't have the mental space, time or inclination. Added to that I was naturally messy anyway.

I just woke up one day and decided enough was enough. I grew very disheartened super quick though because, as you said, you are running just to stand still. All I can say is that it is a long game and if you peck away at it slowly it does start to move the mountain back down to a molehill.

The biggest one change i made was 'dont put it down, put it away' followed by you cant do it all so do some 'progress, not perfection'. I also did a version of the power half hour. While dinner is on me and OH will do a raft of chores while we are up and about.

It does work and i can prove it! because we had unexpected guests (a thing i would never ever accept - i used to hide behind the sofa and pretend i wasn't in!) with barely any warning and it didn't cause a meltdown or a screaming dervish of cleaning.

CoffeeChocolateWine · 16/03/2023 16:19

Another messy person here. Was always messy as a child, then teen, then young adult. I've definitely improved since then and part of me thinks I may be able to keep things tidy if it was just me, but now I have three messy DC too so I just can't keep on to of it! My middle one especially is so untidy and spreads her crap throughout the whole house. It drives me mad. DH likes to think he's tidy but in reality he just shoves things in and on top of cupboards and puts mess in piles!

I have a cleaner who comes for 3 hours each week and she is a god send. I do get stressed the day before running around putting things away and clearing surfaces but I know having the discipline is a good thing otherwise if wouldn't get done at all.

Wish I could find something that works for me. I do like the idea of seeing every job as two jobs. But I'm the queen of half-doing things...lots of half finished jobs in our house. I just run out of time or something else comes up or the kids want something and it just doesn't get competed 🙄

Coxspurplepippin · 16/03/2023 16:19

pompomdaisy · 16/03/2023 15:30

Basically people who stress about mess are mostly empty heads or anxious nuts. Do what you can. If someone judges you. Kick them out of your life.

There's plenty of research showing living in a cluttered messy environment can adversely affect some people's mental health.

Hochjochhospiz · 16/03/2023 16:30

Having less stuff really does help.
If the toys are a problem, go through them and get rid of half of them.
Same with the clothes. Socks used to drive me mad until I got rid of them all and just got black ones, so no need for matching pairs etc.
I used to be quite messy, but I wouldn't say I was too bad, and I've improved things by decluttering and then being really strict about what comes into the house. My mother and siblings were brought up in poverty and basically hoarded everything - so houses full of old yoghurt pots, flattened cereal boxes, every damn thing kept in case it could be reused. My generation - so me and my cousins - struggle not to be the same.
I've forced myself to not keep stuff - cardboard, plastic beakers, whatever, go straight into the recycling. Broken electrical items are taken straight to the tip and replaced. At one time I would have kept them hanging around in case I could use them for something!!
Junk mail doesn't even enter the house - I have a letter box outside, I empty it and any junk is chucked in the paper recycling bin. When I lived in the UK, I had a bin by the front door for junk mail. It all went straight in there.
I don't buy stuff unless I am replacing something else - eg. clothes, I don't buy a new jumper until an old jumper really is on its last legs.
That's how I keep things under control.

I've really noticed that with less stuff there is absolutely definitely less mess.

Optionally · 16/03/2023 16:36

Would finances allow you to have the cleaner twice a week? If so, would she be up for:

  • changing bedclothes, washing, drying and putting away clean bedclothes
  • emptying the dishwasher and draining board (and sink, if necessary!)
  • picking up the post and putting it in to piles (you, DH, junk)
  • emptying all the bins / recycling
  • putting away an supermarket grocery delivery (and tidying / cleaning fridge as necessary before doing so)
  • putting away any clean laundry (you may need to agree to put it in the right rooms so she knows what belongs to which person)
If you get all that, plus cleaning, it should make a noticeable difference. But you will probably need to pay well above the going rate if you want someone who will stay long enough to really get to know you, where you keep things, what you really need doing.
CornedBeef451 · 16/03/2023 16:37

I always recommend the podcast a slob comes clean.

She used to have a very chaotic home and might have ADHD.

She takes you through how to declutter without making a mess and just helps you get stuff out of the house.

She also has very, very simple routines for cleaning and tidying, much simpler that TOMM or anything like that.

SootspriteSearcher · 16/03/2023 16:41

I really have to force myself to be somewhat tidy it doesn't come naturally to me, but I find mess stressful and hard to relax in. Dh and dds are all incredibly messy. After reading alot I believe DD2 has ADHD and I think I may do aswell as alot of the behaviors resonate with me and my childhood.

So it's been a massive struggle to get tidier and more organised.

For me things things that work day to day:

  • weekend/day off list literally broken down into tiny tasks. I feel a sense of achievement ticking of each task and can see what else I need to do.
  • tidying the kitchen while the kettle boils (put away washing up, empty bin or load dishwasher)
  • try and do a wash load every day and get it put away the same day not left in a pile of doom precariously balanced. (Still working on this, it's my worst area!)
  • a handheld hoover, I can literally whizz it around the house in under 10 mins. It's been a lifesaver and my favourite purchase.

What has made the most difference:

  • decreasing the amount of stuff, and what you don't have space for get rid of. There are charities that collect from your home so you could collect it all up and organise one.
  • decent, workable storage. A wardrobe when you wear mostly jeans and tshirts is pointless, use the space on a tall chest of drawers. Shoe racks that you can close make hallways look much tidier. A place to put keys/purse near the front door. We use a kallax unit as a TV stand so all the cables are hidden in boxes. We threw away all the dvd cases and just use a giant wallet - saves space as 2 wallets that hold over 1000 dvds fits in one kallax cube.
  • buy less food/toiletries, these take up alot of room and headspace when cooking. Eg I had loads of impulse buys I bought on offer now im now trying to use in this months meal plan.
  • find/buy specific storage for all those random things you need but don't actually have a specific home - tape measure, allen key, cellotape etc. I have a shelf in my storage cupboard with labelled boxes. This reduces the need to buy more stuff, eg when i need superglue I can check my sticky box. I also have a birthday box in the loft with candles, birthday cards, wrapping paper, banners. This also saves money in the long run.

I understand all these things take time to implement but I did them over a the period of a few months on my days off. I still have many problem areas but I take it slow. I look at it that it didn't become cluttered overnight, it's going to take time to declutter.

CornedBeef451 · 16/03/2023 16:43

Once you've got rid of enough stuff it's much easier to organise. So the kitchen won't be as messy because you have clear surfaces and only as much crockery etc as you actually need. You have space to put things away easily without having to move anything else.

Surfaces in living areas are clear and easy to wipe. Toys can be tidied away in 5 mins.

If you only have exactly what clothes you need then laundry is easier to keep on top of and put away as you won't have brought stuff to leave in piles.

It has revolutionised my life!

My house was never tidy enough to just have people over and now I can tidy the whole house in 30 mins (apart from teen DD's room) and another 30 mins to do any cleaning and visitors could go in ANY room, even my bedroom as there are no longer piles of stuff waiting to be moved somewhere else.

Wombatbum · 16/03/2023 16:44

This sounds like me, also pretty sure I have ADHD 😩

nobodysdaughter · 16/03/2023 16:56

I disagree- but you are in the eye of the storm with little kids, go easy on yourself.
BUT you will always be chronically messy if you believe you will always be so. I used to be RIDICULOUSLY messy, now I keep on top of it - how? (And I've probably got undiagnosed ADHD)
I believe people can change, learn new habits, I tell myself "I'm a calm, organised, clean and tidy person" when I get overwhelmed. I repeat it over and over in my head. I NEVER call myself messy/untidy either in my head or to anyone else.
I'm well into my fifth year of decluttering, and it is only now that I can look around and see any big improvements. Please don't give up! It's not an over night thing. I haven't given up getting rid of a bin liner off old shite regularly. Get a bag sling a load of stuff in it, put it in the car - eventually it will get taken to the tip the it's gone FOREVER! You feel lighter!

I know you want to change, and I believe you can't

neverendinglauaundry · 16/03/2023 16:58

I feel you. No advice really. It's easier with less stuff but my family love stuff.

Bloomingcancer · 16/03/2023 17:08

A while ago, and probably on here, I read about doing five things, so my five things every day for a while was to chuck a minimum of five things away every day, when I say chucking one bag was also things for charity the shop. I also had a box under my bed I threw bits and bobs in when busy and then before I went to bed I tasked myself to deal with one or more items, so something may have needed to be binned, something might have needed filing, something else might need repairing. It got a bit full on and I had bags of filing, etc. but then another night I took that bag and did that one thing.

BertieBotts · 16/03/2023 17:15

A Slob Comes Clean is the only one which has worked for me. I've always been shit at this stuff. My childhood/teenage bedroom was a sea of clothes and paper about 3 feet deep and nothing magically changed when I grew up.

BUT:-

It doesn't work 100%. My house is still chaotic (as in, people would be shocked/alarmed) about 50% of the time or more. However it is much better than it used to be. It would not take days/weeks to get it presentable now, it would probably take an hour or two even on the worst days.

It is probably DH doing at least as much as me, often significantly more than me. I could probably not sustain it without him. If I didn't have at least one competent adult in the house it would probably all descend into overwhelming very quickly.

It has only worked on any level because I bought the book and basically got obsessive over it and went through the "28 day challenge" (which took me at least 3 months if you can even claim that I finished it, which arguably I never did). And I listen to basically every episode of the podcast, skipping them occasionally, most days. Always when I'm cleaning/tidying/decluttering in order to kind of cement everything together in my head. The repetition seems to be key in order to get the key concepts to embed themselves in my head as things that are cemented as true facts.

For example: I now understand the difference between what she calls "daily tasks" (or four habits) and "actual cleaning". It is, generally, the daily tasks not being done that make a house seem chaotic. If you can just manage those, even if everything else is insane, it helps. Conversely, you can spend hours on whatever plan or routine or anything but if you've neglected the daily tasks (because most cleaning routines don't bother to add them because apparently this is obvious to normal people) then it will look and feel chaotic. And you'll be exhausted and defeated and not understand why you worked so hard and it didn't help.

I also have ADHD, which I think is behind the general messiness/slobbiness. Understanding and putting strategies in place for ADHD has meant that other strategies (like this book, probably others might help too) are able to work effectively. If cleaning is something you struggle with to the point that no book ever helps, ADHD is something worth looking into.

I have to actually DO IT. There is a line in the book which made me laugh out loud because I felt so seen. She said something like: Stop searching for the magical secret that means your house will stay clean without you having to clean it. You can read this bool 100 times and your house will not get cleaner. You actually have to clean your house. Sorry. But this helps because I think on some subconscious level I was always looking for that secret, and because actually even just doing the first of the daily tasks (Dishes) makes such a hugenormous, instant difference and does not actually take that long it means that I can do that most days and if I have missed a few days I just have to get caught up on that and the rest can wait (and I don't need to reinvent the wheel or beat myself up - just start again and the starting task being easy helps hugely with this).

I had to get rid of a LOT of stuff. I am still in the process of this actually. I use Dana's method again. I am learning about why my previous efforts to declutter did not particularly seem to make any effect and this was because I did not get stuff out of the house quickly enough, meaning that it ended up reassimilating into our general stuff and/or gathering dust and taking up space. And I made frequent use of what Dana calls "Procrastination Stations" (keep pile/keep box).

I have heard KC Davis (domesticblisters on social media) is good for getting past a lot of the mental blocks and guilt spirals around cleaning which can be extremely unhelpful. Her book is "How to keep house while drowning".

vincettenoir · 16/03/2023 17:15

I have improved my messiness / chaos / timekeeping over the years. One thing that helped me was observing my own behaviour a bit more. I would notice that I was doing 4 things in the kitchen at once and becoming overwhelmed so now when I notice that I make sure I complete a task score moving on.

It’s a relatively new thing that couples have both been working full time with children and a household to run. There are improvements in technology (washing machines / dishwashers etc). But a lot more is expected from parents in society now. It wasn’t that long ago that parents would send their kids out to play all the time and they just fed them before dinner and packed them off again the next day. Be forgiving of yourself for finding it hard. It is hard.