To think that "Rehabilitation" is a joke, because you can't change who someone is sexually attracted to!

[BeachBlondey]

Inspired by the Gary Glitter latest story.

Why as a society, can't we accept, that you cannot fundamentally change who someone is sexually attracted to?

For example - no amount of "rehabilitation" will stop paedophiles being attracted to children.

We know that conversion therapy does not work (barbaric!)

Furthermore, you can't read people mind's, and of course they will say that they feel rehabilitated, because they know that this is their key to being released.

Further still, what happens when you ban someone from indulging in their sexual fantasies for years on end? Surely, the amount of sexual frustration and desire will build and build and build.

If a rapist has not had sex with a woman for 10 years, when he is released from prison, isn't he far more likely to be sexually frustrated and thus more likely to attack quite quickly?

If a paedophile hasn't been around children for 10 years, surely the first time he is around children, his sexual urges will go in to overdrive, probably to far more dangerous levels than ever before, because he will have an appetite that has not been sated for decades.

I am a female heterosexual woman, and no amount of "rehabilitation" forced upon me, would make me stop wanting sex with men. Nor would it magically make me fancy women. But, if I was in prison for having sex with a man, of course, I would tell the parole board that I was cured. And I'm sure that having been celibate for 10 years, the first thing I would want to do upon release would be to have sex with a man.

I'm so sick of sex offenders being released, who very quickly go on to reoffend, resulting in some poor innocent person being attacked or killed. We are constantly risking the safety of the public, under the guise of people having been rehabilitated, despite us seeing evidence to the contrary all the time.

When released prisoners reoffend, I would like to see the members of that Parole board penalised, either with being fired from their jobs, or being given monetary fines.

I realise that a big issue is space in prison. We either build more prisons, or consider medical castration maybe? We cannot keep placing the public at risk.

Not all sexual offending is attraction based. It often isn't.

Sometimes rehabilitation is about people recognising their offending triggers and developing strategies to prevent them progressing to assaulting someone etc.

Some people are completely unable to be rehabilitated. Some people are. It is not an "all or nothing".

There are multiple factors involved in the success or not of the release of a serious offender. Punishing the Parole Board members is ridiculous.

So is the sexual abuse of children. I know what I would prefer to happen in society out of the 2 options however.

A trump card? Don't put your assumed agenda onto me. I was simply explaining why I hadn't a full idea of the graphic nature of the thread. I'm not thread policing anyone. I found the content very triggering and upsetting having suffered child abuse and rape.

The pile on (insisting I should know the content of the thread) has just made me feel even worse, and now I'm crying so thanks for that.

You're the one not being nice. But you do you hun. Living up to the viper reputation. Don't bother replying.

What's the alternative OP, whole life sentences for rape? It's hard enough getting a conviction as it is. And they "may as well" murder the victim if the sentence is the same.

But people can't control their sexual urges. We know this.

So is being a victim of rape or childhood sexual abuse.

Punishing the Parole Board members is ridiculous

I disagree. How many parole board members would release a multiple rapist or child attacker, if they knew he would be housed next door? And yet they release very dangerous people, all the time, who they know will be walking amongst us, and we are none the wiser. It's an enormous gamble with the public's safety and they get t wrong so often.

People can control their sexual urges
We know this

Just look at how varied the rates of sexual assault are around the world

Some people can and do control their sexual urges. Whether offenders want to and are willing and able to work at this is on a case by case basis. Rehab works for some but not for all.

How do they compare? And is it related to the strength of punishment?

I agree that some criminals cannot be rehabilitated. Specifically those who have committed sexual assault against children (or been complicit in that). There's something terribly wrong with the wiring in someone's head if they commit these crimes and they should never be released into the general public to live private lives.

I'd be in favour of them always being remanded in some sort of supervised custody or chemically castrated. I know the latter is barbaric, but so are the crimes these people mostly men commit. Statistics prove they are highly likely to reoffend, so make it impossible for them to reoffend through whatever means necessary.

Power and control is at the root of a lot of sex based crimes, mainly committed by men:
Domestic abuse
Murder
Rape
Child abuse
Sexual assaults
Watching extreme degrading porn
Using prostitutes and other sex workers

I think it is very hard to change, I don't think paedophiles should be treated differently to any other "power and control" offenders.

Not sure what the answer is but the narrative that these (mainly) men "can't help it" definitely doesn't contribute positively.

God forbid that anyone browsing Mumsnet should have to spend ten seconds being aware of the existence of something nasty.

I know the official line is that rape is about power and control, but whether this is the case for all rapists is questionable. I do think some men have an overwhelming obsession with sex and getting off, and will go to whatever ends to do so, and that it's about sex rather than power.

I do also believe that some men are sexually attracted only to children. I doubt people choose their sexual proclivities and fetishes - they seem somewhat innate. And I do not believe that any kind of rehabilitation will stop people from acting on their sexual desire - the reoffending rate shows this.

Consequently, what are the options? Arguably, mandatory chemical (or physical) castration. Nothing else seems to work. One question - assuming someone doesn't want to be sexually attracted to children - could they request chemical or physical castration? Can one consent to it? I have no idea....

I don't think paedophiles should be treated differently to any other "power and control" offenders.

What is an appropriate course of action in your eyes?

Im conscious of how difficult it is to convict rapists, for example.

"But people can't control their sexual urges. We know this."

Erm, yes they can - otherwise every straight man would be a rapist.

Back to the until question: what's the answer? Other than punishment and prevention (including teaching children very early about red flag behaviour and how to report it to trusted adults), what alternative is there?

What do you do about people brought up in a cycle of intergenerational abuse? Not even try to rehabilitate despite the fact that they are damaged child victim as well as adult perpetrator?

It's extremely difficult to predict an individual's behaviour, even for experts — you can see that in the real struggle psychiatry has had trying to determine who might be at risk of suicide. In this study: jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2788456 which looked at various techniques including machine learning on self report, the study authors said, "Clinicians’ assessment alone was little better than chance at predicting suicide attempts".

So you'd expect parole boards to unfortunately release people who go on to offend quite frequently, unless the authorities massively raised the threshold for when someone should be released. As far as I'm aware that's not up to parole board members to decide, so I suppose they just have to try and make these tough guesses as best they can according to the guidelines they have to work with. If you implemented punishment of parole board members for decisions that turned out badly, I would've thought you'd struggle to recruit for those roles, because a lot of these people are highly-paid professionals who could easily get other work.

That poster said they were autistic and a victim of child abuse, @furryfrontbottom .

Can people on here stop bullying Garfield? It's enough now already.

Absolute nonsense. Rehabilitation is about changing their behaviours, not who they are attracted to.

@GarfieldAteTheLasagne So sorry for what happened to you.

Protecting children and not the offender?

Anyone who can hurt a child in that way, even once, is beyond rehabilitation. There is something fundamentally wrong with them that cannot be cured by a stint in jail. It wasn't an 'accidental mistake'. A thief, drug user for example does have hope of being rehabiliated. A person who would do that to a child? Never.

They ruined that childs life. So the alternative to 'rehabilitation'. Keep them locked up for life or better yet end their life. I have no sympathy for anyone who can do that to a child. Zero. Whatever their reason and however sorry they appear to be. What is the actual point of them?

My view may be very controversial, but even medical castration is not enough. if someone sexually abuses a child, they should be physically castrated and left to bleed to death. But we can't do that, so we 'rehabilitate them' and then let them out to do it again. And ruin another innocent childs life. Because 99% of them, do do it again.

Whatever the alternative, letting them out to reoffend is NOT a solution.

So on this basis, people who have committed barbaric crimes should never be released. Then all risk is mitigated.

I know everyone will say, there aren't enough prisons, but, if you stripped away parole boards, and didn't have to monitor offenders on the outside, didn't have any repeat offenders, and therefore no arrests and trials for these, how much money would that save? Enough to build a few more prisons, I would think. Also, Life meaning Life, might be more of a deterrent in the first place.

👏

Yeah. You realise alot of rape victims suffer immeasurably for years and a number go on to commit suicide? So yeah, lets make sure they leave their victoms alive and as a reward get 6 months community service and a slap on the wrist and leave the victim to feel so helpless they end their own life.

Personally, if anyone commits rape and their victim then takes their own life they should then be tried for murder.

I would think so certainly.