To think there should be a higher minimum age for face tattoos

[salutsandy]

I think a face tattoo is such a huge decision that there should be a higher minimum age, say 25 or 30, for this. AIBU?

Hilarious that someone suggests actual prison time for someone who tattoos their own face.
'Your body, your choice' extends to more than women's reproductive health.

I know someone who has face tattoos. She is a goth, and they all go beautifully with her aesthetic. They are not swastikas and random words.

You miss the bit where I mentioned I'm a manic-depressive? 😅 Trust me, I'm familiar with the pitiful and parlous state of mental health services in this country.

If theorising on a discussion board when not everything is already perfect is indulgent, then there's an awful lot of us indulging ourselves.

If those mechanisms already exist, though, what are you grousing about?

I'm grousing about the fact that because some people don't approve of facial tattoos they are looking for ways to limit them when there is already an age restriction and the industry is aware of their impact, and are using the mental health faux concern to bolster their own prejudices.

Apologies for snapping by the way.

It's just that after a decade of being adjacent to this industry, and hearing a lot about how those who don't like tattoos and piercings make negative assumptions about said practises, and have actively made life difficult for people doing a job to high standards, I am a bit defensive.

And it's been a long day.

But anyway, my apologies.

Hey thanks — I apologise for suggesting you have a persecution complex. I didn't intend to suggest that wanting a tattoo automatically means your mental state is suspect. I was playing with ideas that would potentially provide some of the protections people seem to want, without the age discrimination, but at the cost of some loss of spontaneity, a little less absolute autonomy, and of course the monetary cost of paying a nurse/doctor/whoever for a cert of some kind. It seems from what people say that a lot of the current protections around what tattoos are offered on what body part depend entirely on the discretion of the tattooist involved, as they're not dentists or nurses with the requisite healthcare-related responsibilities and shouldn't be expected to be, and I also don't think it's at all reasonable to ask them to assess medical things like whether their client is capacitous and capable of informed consent, on top of the standards they might or might not hold themselves to. Whatever you do, there'll be unethical practitioners who are willing to illegally tattoo people, though, whether it's an age limit, a medical certificate, a different age limit for different types of tattoos, or whatever.

People mature at different ages. I’d personally be concerned about most late teens having a face tattoo as it’s so obvious/permanent and I know how much I’ve changed since that time, however I’m on the fence about increasing age limit.

I might be harsh and don’t know how common this is (suspect not) but I’m not comfortable with NHS tattoo removal. If you’re old enough to decide and pay for it, you are old enough to pay for private removal. Self-inflicted cosmetics.

Can you see the benefit of music? Or paintings? What about hair dye or makeup? What about wallpaper?

Whether or not you personally like the look of them, tattoos are a form of art, they're a form of making your body look a certain way because it makes you happy, and they're a form of decoration.

All the things above are also 'pointless' in that they don't serve a purpose other than to make us happy or make something more beautiful (in the eye of the beholder, of course - art that one person thinks is gorgeous might be of no interest to someone else).

We could live in houses with bare plaster and no art on the walls. We could never have music or films or paintings. We could insist everyone has to keep their natural hair colour and never use makeup... but we don't, because we get about 80 years if we're lucky to try and enjoy ourselves and get a bit of joy and we may as well feel good about how we look and what we look at.

I suspect that is caused by the current fashion for infantilizing young people rather than anything physiological.

You can't have an age of majority, when you become an adult, and then say you're too young, but still an adult, to do certain things. Maybe the age of majority should be raised to 21.

I don't have a face tattoo and don't particularly like the look of them but I don't know why they're see as somehow worse than other tattoos. Is it because they can't be hidden easily? Because then that's just back to thinking tattoos are bad and should be hidden, which... seems a bit nonsensical and outdated.

Unless the tattoo itself reveals something negative about someone (Nazi symbol, misspelling, 10 ex girlfriends' names crossed out, etc) then I really don't see the issue.

FWIW I work in a reasonably stuffy industry and all four directors of our business have tattoos that are visible to some extent day to day (none on the face though, altough one has tattooed hands and neck). It's never been the slightest issue.

I think maybe I didn't make it clear to you what I meant by "pragmatically". I didn't use that word accidentally — I deliberately chose to discuss what might be pragmatic rather than what might be compassionate or medically needed or deserved, because you're right that when it comes to compassion or medical need or deserving, there are many things which might feel more pressing but which aren't provided.

I was referring to what might be considered practical and cost-efficient by those running the country and deciding what gets funded. Assuming that availability of NHS facial tattoo removal wouldn't incentivise extra people to get tattoos, then it's likely that offering a limited facial tattoo removal service would result in a net gain for the country, possibly via reduced mental healthcare costs and more likely via reduced benefits payouts and increased tax revenue from the now more-employable patient. So funding facial tattoo removal could well be a pragmatic policy, though you might not consider it to be as principled or as compassionate a policy as providing breast reductions.

It's also possible that offering breast reductions would be a pragmatic policy, of course, as well as being principled and compassionate. Regardless, it's pretty much beside the point whether breast reductions are more necessary, more compassionate, or more pragmatic — my post was just about whether, on a purely practical national moneysaving/moneyraising economic basis, it could be a good idea to offer NHS facial tattoo removal in certain circumstances.

BTW my tits are massive and hurt my back, and I don't have a facial tattoo, so I'm not making any of these points for any personal reason.

I suspect that is caused by the current fashion for infantilizing young people rather than anything physiological.

you can suspect all you like. There are several (dozen) papers and studies and very very experienced not to say highly qualified people who have independently, and together come to this conclusion. They didn't pull it out of their backsides. Your apparent self-belief that you know better than the (neuro)scientific community makes me wonder if you're 25 yet... (not really, that was goady, but you are infuriating)

All of the is so true, that made me think of some of the skinheads in the 70s early 80s faired with having a swastika inked on their forehead, cos at surely got to be a regret.

They should not be illegal....whatever next? Face piercings made illegal too? Just because YOU don't see a benefit...for others it's about self expression. I think society needs to get over this but the individual also needs to be mature enough to realise that people will judge so yes...the age limit should be raised.

I don't like them myself but if others want one...crack on. I'm more likely to judge by personality.

Well then everything should be moved to 25 and children should be staying with parents having still parental responsibilities. This is absolutely how extreme this thing sounds on MN.
Actually, I think pp had it bit around. It's not that this came from fashion of infantilising young people (yes, there are studies), but rather people are using the fact that under 25s are more likely (not all because the development of connections is individual) to be impulsive and think more emotionally than "rational" adults to infantilise the young ones.

If people argue that face tattoos, or any tattoos in some cases, should be available only to presumably adult rational people when they really believe such big decisions cannot be made before 24-25 mark, then logically they should surely argue for same rule for other life altering decisions? Marriage? Sex? Buying house? Signing contracts? Joining army?
Pretty confident to say that small face tattoo might be smaller life changer than unprotected sex....

Oh and some criminal liability would have to be moved too.

Outside of mumsnet, tattoos are fairly standard (Some of our doctors have them including full sleeves) and are a non issue.

I'm not sure the 27-45 period is consistent either because there are always 'vulnerabilities' to be taken into account 🤔.

Technically I have a face tattoo. I've had my eyebrows nanobladed.

Can someone explain why they should be illegal? Just because you don't like the look of them seems a piss poor excuse.

You'd be banning a number of cosmetic procedures too, some of which are popular amongst those with medical conditions such as alopecia who have brows tattooed on.

Also, as pp have said, those from different cultures just couldn't have them done? Or would have to leave the country to do so?

Let's face it, people are going to do it no matter what. Make it illegal and suddenly there will be more back alley tattoos which will a) look worse and b) be incredibly dangerous.

The vast majority of tattoo artists will not tattoo someone's face lightly. Many will do it for people who are heavily (and visibly) tattooed or not at all. Many will also impose their own age restrictions on these things.

Personally I agree with the stance that someone is either a recognised adult or they're not.

I chose piss poor options for my alevels and degree and now I'm stuck living with the consequences. There are loads of things we decide as a young adult that are life altering.

You are either an adult or you are not.

Are doctors allowed to have face tattoos?

I think most people live to regret them. When I can't sleep at night I watch videos on my FB feed (a whole surreal world) and in amongst the random rug cleaners, make-up artists, amateur chefs, people losing weight, pool cleaners and jet washers, there's loads of people going through excrutiatingly painful tattoo removal. It's a bit grossly fascinating.

I'm not a fan of tattoos but don't care if other people have them.

Gosh no. Obviously psychopats!

You just reminded me to find this one www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/09/vladimir-franz-tattooed-czech-elections

I believe that NHS dress and appearance codes simply state that nothing about them should be offensive, illegal or discrimination. How they define that, I couldn’t be sure.

Years ago I was good friends with a nurse who had a very patchwork history: he’d been a gang member in his teens, had done some prison time as a youth for petty offences, had then got himself educated and through a nursing degree and his specialism was first prison nursing; and then working A&E in a south London hospital. He had quite extensive tattooing, including hands and neck and temples. Not only was he a brilliant nurse hands down, with an excellent approach to person centred care, but he had an ability to win the trust and cooperation of marginalised patients with similar backgrounds to his own, who took the visuals as their first cue - which was quite a lot of them. That shouldn’t be underestimated as an incredibly valuable aspect in providing a service.

@ComtesseDeSpair the best line manager I ever had was a guy with a full sleeve. He was absolutely brilliant. I really hope that in my lifetime I will see the prejudice against tattoos and the people who have them ease off, it's so tiresome and baseless. We are told not to judge a book by its cover, but when it comes to tattoos, it's suddenly OK to pigeonhole the people who have them.