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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there should be a higher minimum age for face tattoos

213 replies

salutsandy · 15/03/2023 13:19

I think a face tattoo is such a huge decision that there should be a higher minimum age, say 25 or 30, for this. AIBU?

OP posts:
salutsandy · 15/03/2023 15:35

Based on your (and a lot of other posters) comments. Whenever tattoos etc are mentioned on MN it becomes a thread of people saying unpleasant things about other people's bodies and the choices they make with them.

This thread hasn't become that at all

Your comments are strange and arguably a bit inflammatory
I think yours are

OP posts:
tigger1001 · 15/03/2023 15:35

This reply has been deleted

This post has been withdrawn at the poster's request due to privacy concerns.

I agree. If people want them, they will find a way.

I saw a player in an under 17 team with a full sleeve tattoo.

If someone really wants one, they would just go abroad and get one where maybe the age is lower.

salutsandy · 15/03/2023 15:36

Let's not pretend a tattoo impacts your life/career more than a child does.

I think it would. It would impact an interview more to have a face tattoo than a child. A face tattoo would also impact dating more

OP posts:
WindowGazers · 15/03/2023 15:36

unclebuck · 15/03/2023 14:18

My tattoo artist friend calls them Everlasting Job Stoppers
I was called a bigot for not employing someone with one, but they upset/scare children and would be a problem for my business so no, I won't, ever.

I'm not for or against, but do they really scare children?

smellyflowers · 15/03/2023 15:36

They should have to sign a form or something but no but illegal

JarByTheDoor · 15/03/2023 15:38

I don’t agree with raising the age to get one but maybe say anything above the neck you have to see a psychiatrist first lol if you are insane no tattoo above the neck.

@Eyerollcentral I know you're lol-ing about that but it's actually an interesting question — whether competence and capacity should be assumed for those seeking body-altering procedures, including tattoos but also surgery, fillers, cosmetic dental treatment, etc., or whether there should be some kind of test or assessment.

I have bipolar disorder/The Illness Formerly Known As Manic Depression, and when I'm my normal self I would never dream of getting any kind of tattoo — I'm far too risk-averse and non-committal to want to choose something to display on my body for the rest of my life. But I can quite imagine myself making a very different decision during a manic phase, and indeed people do make decisions like that when they're temporarily but acutely unwell with a psychiatric problem like mania, or when under the influence of mind-altering substances.

Tattoos seem to have some kind of association with other types of mental health problems for some people too — I've seen young women transition smoothly from self-harming via cutting to repeatedly getting new tattoos. If that's a technique they've found to let them love, value and appreciate their bodies instead of attacking them, and they find their tattoos meaningful and helpful, then great, I'm happy for them, but if there's a possibility that this is another form of self-harm for some, then that's more worrying.

I've noticed that those of my acquaintances who need to use secondary mental health services seem to be more likely to have tattoos than people I know from other contexts, but of course it might not be directly mental illness related. There might be socioeconomic factors, or cultural factors, or it might be that sometimes, when you have an enduring mental health problem like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or other mental illnesses that either keep coming back or never go away, the whole employment question can seem moot anyway, so it would make sense if people with mental illness are more likely to think, "Screw it, I might as well get that tattoo I want," even if the mental illness doesn't directly influence that decision.

I wouldn't want to ban tattoos for people with mental illness, but I think the question of whether tattooists should have any ethical obligation when it comes to capacity and competence, and how you would regulate or enforce that when tattooists aren't healthcare workers of any kind, is an interesting one.

Brefugee · 15/03/2023 15:45

Where I live a lot of the reputable tattoo artists won’t do face tattoos.

same. My tattoo artist won't do anything on the face or head. She will do arms and so on on younger (but old enough to have tattoos) only after a long discussion about what they want to do for a job and so on and so forth.

randomusername2020 · 15/03/2023 15:47

This reply has been withdrawn

This post has been withdrawn at the poster's request due to privacy concerns.

WindowGazers · 15/03/2023 15:47

On a bit of a side tangent, I got a tattoo when I was 18, asked for a silhouette of something instead of an outline (which is what I wanted). When he drew it on me freehand with pen he only drew the outline, showed it to me, and I was like 'great looks amazing!' and ended up with a totally black tattoo that I hated and ended up having lazered then tattoed over. Totally my fault but an example of how easy it is to have something tattoed on you that you don't want. Never felt so stupid in my life.

Whatwouldscullydo · 15/03/2023 15:50

I wouldn't want to ban tattoos for people with mental illness, but I think the question of whether tattooists should have any ethical obligation when it comes to capacity and competence, and how you would regulate or enforce that when tattooists aren't healthcare workers of any kind, is an interesting one

This is kinda part of my point. Expecting people to be able to make an accurate assessment of someone's capabilities in the short space of time they spend with them is unreasonable. Especially in cases where friends family and medical professionals have also missed it or cant/won't/dont do anything themselves to protect their family member .

I mean if someone comes in and they are very clearly high as a kite or unresponsive/ unable to communicate they understand anything that's being explained then fair enough, tattooing them would very obvious be a breach of social responsibility.

If the customer withholds that information when asked and appears coherent /lucid/capable then how can they possibly know.

I remember a complaint made against me in a pub once. We werent supposed to serve people who appear to be extremely drunk. You were ment to cut them.off for their own safety/protection. Turned out the guy had had a stroke and the staggering/slurred speech was related or partly related to that.

The same people who kick off at the rules they deem intrusive /Inappropriate are also the same.ones who would complain if they or someone they knew got so wasted they ended up in hospital because staff were too busy worrying about umpteen medical conditions that can present as drunk and causing offence.

oioimatey · 15/03/2023 15:50

Any decent artist wouldn't tattoo someone's face, neck or hands unless they were already heavily tattooed. But young people make silly decisions. I am SO glad I never got the tattoo I desperately wanted when I was 18; I'd be so embarrassed (and it was going to be on my stomach, too!)

Brefugee · 15/03/2023 15:55

I don't swallow that "brain doesn’t mature until 25" stuff. My peers and i were all working full-time and living away from our parents at 18.

that's up to you. Psychologists and people who study brains for a living agree that a brain isn't fully mature, and firing on all cylinders until it is between around 23 and 25 years of age.

JarByTheDoor · 15/03/2023 16:07

@Whatwouldscullydo that perspective makes perfect sense for someone whose experience is of that kind of job, but there are potential routes by which you could regulate access to permanent or long-lasting body modification procedures like tattoos, piercings, fillers/botox, cosmetic surgery/dentistry, and so on which wouldn't really be practical when applied to buying a pint at a bar.

For example, you could require people to pay for an assessment with a qualified and/or certified professional to make sure they understood the proposed procedure and the risks, that they weren't suffering from body dysmorphia, and so on, have it be valid for a certain period of time after receipt, and make them produce that certificate before having any procedure. You could require drug and alcohol testing on the day or shortly beforehand. There could even be extra hoops to jump through for people like me who occasionally go crazy, requiring a certificate of not being currently and actively bonkers, dated within the last week. You could have mandated cooling-off periods, and ban walk-ins. All sorts of stuff is possible that wouldn't be doable with bars and pubs; whether it's necessary and proportionate is another matter.

GoodChat · 15/03/2023 16:08

I don't swallow that "brain doesn’t mature until 25" stuff. My peers and i were all working full-time and living away from our parents at 18.

"I don't believe in science because I felt grown up at 18"

Brefugee · 15/03/2023 16:09

Based on your (and a lot of other posters) comments. Whenever tattoos etc are mentioned on MN it becomes a thread of people saying unpleasant things about other people's bodies and the choices they make with them.
This thread hasn't become that at all

that's not true though. There have been some bloody nasty comments about tattoos in general and facial tattoos in particular.

What we hope, if it's our children we are talking about, is that up to they are 18 and legally don't have to take the blindest bit of notice of us any more, is that we bring them up to be able to make good decisions. My DCs (and i) all have several tattoos, and they were mostly firstly in unobtrusive places and as we/they have grown and matured (we're all over 25) they have got more colourful and more prominent. None of us has a facial tattoo, and are unlikely to get one, although i do fancy a tiny one behind my ear for some reason.

We don't generally go around saying "fake tan" ew!" or "those fake nails are so ugly" and so on (both are things that i actually think but would never say. Not sure what my DCs think of those things) and i hope that people can keep their nasty opinions about our tattoos to themselves. They do get a riposte if they do say something mean though.

What i would like to see is possibly some kind of licencing and insurance (although there possibly is something like that) for tattoo artists. Mostly, though, if you're getting a tattoo all reputable artists, and people who already have them say pretty much the same things. Which is: research where you want to get it. Artists all have their own style. Some want to work on a design with you and make suggestions. Some won't just blindly tattoo a picture you bring them, if they don't think it will work. Some won't do arms, faces, visible areas until they know you and know you already have some tattoos. Ask people where they got their tattoos done - i have one that a lot of people have asked me about, it is beautiful and has a distinctive style. I am happy to name the artist and point people to her instagram account etc etc.

It's like a hairdresser - but with more lasting results - you can't just jump into the first one you see and expect spectacular results.

Brefugee · 15/03/2023 16:10

For example, you could require people to pay for an assessment with a qualified and/or certified professional to make sure they understood the proposed procedure and the risks, that they weren't suffering from body dysmorphia, and so on

given the proposals for GRCs require no such thing, that sounds a bit much for a bit of ink.

JarByTheDoor · 15/03/2023 16:15

I don't see how GRCs are relevant; they don't change or allow you to change anything about your body, they're just a mechanism by which to falsify legal documents.

Brefugee · 15/03/2023 16:18

I don't see how GRCs are relevant; they don't change or allow you to change anything about your body, they're just a mechanism by which to falsify legal documents.

to get a GRC you used to need a diagnosis of dysmorphia. From medical professionals. What is being suggested here - that you need to have a psych evaluation - is exactly the same thing. So you would relax the rules around a GRC (you don't need to do anything permanent, but the principle is the same) but introduce a rule for a tattoo? it's not consistent. You can't force a psych evaluation for a tattoo, it's ridiculous.

I am making no judgement on people who want a GRC (with or without body modifications) any more than I'm making judgement on people who want facial tattoos. But the principle of a psych evaluation before taking a big step, is the same.

Whatwouldscullydo · 15/03/2023 16:19

How would you justify precious scarce appointments being taken up by currenty healthy people who want a tattoo?

Do you leave one half done because the second appointment Couldn't be squeezed in before the expiry date ?

A certificate valid fir a week is still no indication of capacity the day after it was issued.

If family haven't acted to protect that person, ( ive worked in a place where carer/cops or whatever have actually come in and told us not to serve this person) hows the responsibility now on the tattooist and his/her signed consent form?

There are things the family akd friends could do if concerned. Why don't they? Whys it ok to pass that responsibility onto a stranger and blame them.imstead.

Masterofcats · 15/03/2023 16:24

Well as brain development doesn't reach maturity until 25 you have a fair point.
Also facial tattoo's impact lives negativity and sorry bit NHS money shouldn't be used to correct very stupid mistakes like tattoos on faces. so maybe they should be banned on faces. It is a fair argument, also no tattoos when drunk or having taken drugs?
Tattoo your bum all you want but faces are not a good idea.

19lottie82 · 15/03/2023 16:26

Of course they shouldn’t be illegal. I don’t understand the appeal of them but you can’t tell someone how they can or cannot decorate their own body, that’s just insane!

Whatwouldscullydo · 15/03/2023 16:26

I'm genuinely not trying to be provocative btw. Its just that as someone who also has a level of social responsibility placed in them at work , I have noticed the increase in the pressure on staff vs the level.of responsibility on the person for their choices. Which imo is extremely unfair when no one is held at gun point to get a tattoo/drink/smoke/gamble etc and barely a day goes past where an article doesn't appear on my timeline absolving someone who made a stupid tattoo choice of all responsibility whilst openly quoting in the interview every thing the tattoo staff did " wrong ".

I'm.not saying that things couldn't be stepped up a notch with regards to ensuring customers are fully capable and fully informed. But we also do need to be careful that in doing so we aren't creating a generation/cohort of people who think personal responsibility isn't a real thing.

Ringmaster27 · 15/03/2023 16:27

Most reputable artists won’t touch anyone’s face unless the customer is already heavily tattooed.
My artist won’t do them at all - when I made my first appointment with her 10 years ago, the consent form had a disclaimer stating clearly that she doesn’t do faces or genitals 😳😂

salutsandy · 15/03/2023 16:30

There have been some bloody nasty comments about tattoos in general

Not really? I don't think people have come on being mean about tattoos. I don't mind tattoos, live and let live. But I do feel concerned that I think 18 is too young for a face one.

What i would like to see is possibly some kind of licencing and insurance (although there possibly is something like that) for tattoo artists.

Agreed. I do think a lot of tattoo artists are reputable though, maybe there is already some regulation like you said.

OP posts:
pointythings · 15/03/2023 16:50

@salutsandy there is already a lot of regulation.