To think there should be a higher minimum age for face tattoos

[salutsandy]

I think a face tattoo is such a huge decision that there should be a higher minimum age, say 25 or 30, for this. AIBU?

Agree 100%

How would that work? What if someone tattooed their own face?

@flutterbyebaby then they'd be a right knob wouldn't they

I did a survey of all my customers and the comments re face/neck/hand tattoos and septum piercings surprised me - most over 40s and almost all under 15 hated and or found them scary.

I did a survey of all my customers and the comments re face/neck/hand tattoos and septum piercings surprised me - most over 40s and almost all under 15 hated and or found them scary.

It is a bit unsurprising that something that is meant to be outside social norms, transgressive and meant to shock... does all of that. People want to be counterculture, great. But then complaining that the normative structures don't like it is a bit rich.

It's why all the people who would have had full sleeves and thought they were revolutionary now have face tattoos. It's not fun when everyone is doing it!

God knows what o would have done. A shaved head, a pierced nose and combats had old ladies crossing the road to get away in my teens. Kids actually were curious and quite liked it.

I wonder if Māori kids and elders see it very differently.

Don't get one then 🤷‍♀️

Banning face tattoos is like banning dyed hair imo

I wouldn't do anything. I haven't come to a conclusion on what I think about longlasting and permanent body modification procedures — medical and nonmedical — and competence, capacity, age limits, mental conditions, intoxication etc.

I was just pointing out ways in which, technically, it could be treated very differently to buying a pint at a bar. If you wanted to, you could bring in laws that would make sure nobody could legally modify someone else's body without the subject having been screened to make sure they meet whatever threshold you wanted to set. I tried to be very clear about the fact I'm not advocating for anything one way or the other. I'm only saying that technically, it's possible, along with probably lots of other rules you could bring in as well or instead, if you wanted. Whether it's desirable is another matter. I think individualised restrictions might be more palatable to many people than blanket restrictions on some adults because of their age , but I don't know for sure

And since you mention it, no, if I were totalitarian emperor, I wouldn't relax GRC rules, I'd abolish GRCs, retroactively invalidate any falsified birth certificates etc., and issue truthful documentation for all previous GRC holders.

Yes, I think this is quite a good idea.

@Blossomtoes tattoos should be illegal? Sorry, but that's ridiculous. An insane infringement on people's freedoms. And no, I don't have any tattoos. My adult children do though, and they are all about emotionally significant events.

Nah, if you’re that stupid at 18 then im glad it’s literally written on your face for prospective employers to see

face tattoos should be banned

Except there is no equivalent of shaving your head or letting hair grow out.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks this. I can’t think of any benefits (that you can’t get from something else) of a face tattoo. They do have documented negative consequences like poor employment prospects.

Agreed. It's a massive decision and shouldn't be taken lightly. Most tattoos I see are poor, poor quality. Most footballers ones are awful. I like a good one.

I can't imagine being over 40 and being scared of a tattoo, unless I had lead a very sheltered life. Who are your customers out of curiosity?

I used the words "pay for" deliberately — despite NHS scarcity, there always seems to be a willing pool of professionals to do easy private work. If you think that some people have temporary or permanent barriers to being able to give free and fully informed consent to body modification and you think those people should be protected from having body modifications that may harm them or which they may regret, then this sort of thing could potentially be a reasonable use of resources. But should be paid for by the individual, not by the NHS.

The specifics you mention — yes, I suppose if you had a system like this and someone didn't plan things well, they'd have to leave their tattoo half-done until they could renew their certificate.

And the week-long certificate example was purely an aside based on my own flavour of crazy 🤣 — it's highly unlikely that I would happen to get that certificate in the precise 1–6 day period before I went crazy, and if I did, well, I'd have wanted a tattoo when I was sane anyway, so it probably wouldn't be that much of a disaster… I mostly added that idea because I thought that it was only fair, if I was thinking about a system that would restrict liberties, to think about how it might restrict mine more than most.

But again I think you're mistaking my list of possibilities for a list of things I'm advocating for. It's not. I don't have a dog in this race, or more pertinently, skin in this game. It was a list of things that would be technically possible to require people to do before getting a body modification, that would be less feasible to require people to do because they fancy nipping in the local for a swift half, because a poster was comparing getting a tattoo with ordering a drink. They're not comparable activities, in terms of frequency, likely long-term consequences, or amount of forethought a typical person might think appropriate before embarking on them.

I find this area of ethics and stuff interesting, but like a lot of ethics it's complex and doesn't always lend itself to neat, simple laws and regulation.

Good Lord, is this still rumbling on?

It seems like a clear stalemate between the authoritarian and the libertarian.

Isn't it a case of live and let live at the end of the day?

Most professional tattooists and piercers have professional insurance and environmental health licenses. The age at which you can have a tattoo is 18, the same age at which you are allowed to vote and do myriad other things that come with the age of majority.

Am particularly gobsmacked by the idea of psych evaluations before having a facial tattoo and the subtle implication that there is something mentally aberrant about such a choice. Would you suggest that for those who come from a cultural tradition of facial tattoos? Think very carefully about your biases if you would.

I can hear the whataboutery and false equivalency arguments from here, so spare me the whole "but but FGM / widows on funeral pyres" or whatever you might want to chuck into the mix.

Body art and adornment chosen by an individual harms no-one.

Tattooists refuse those who are drunk or on drugs routinely as it is because alcohol thins the blood to start with, and yes, impairs decision making.

Tattooists and piercers are already heavily regulated and choose their specialties- some may do faces, some don't.

The way some people are commenting here suggests every second 18 year old is sporting facial tattoos and as a result the economy will collapse due to their un -employability.

Out of dozens of tattooed people I know, about three have facial tattoos and two of them are tattooists. All of them are older than 18 and none of them are criminals, unemployed or otherwise "undesirable".

No, I didn’t say that. I think facial tattoos should be illegal. Obviously it would be beyond ridiculous to outlaw them completely, even I’m not that bonkers! Our adult kids are real outliers, there isn’t a single tattoo between the four of them.

They're not comparable activities, in terms of frequency, likely long-term consequences, or amount of forethought a typical person might think appropriate before embarking on them

See thats the thing. Alcohol causes all sorts of issues.many of which have the potential to be lifelong. Alcohol kills people. How many die from a tattoo? Im.sure the numbers would be far less. A Saturday night in a&e full of drunks who have been spiked, drunk too much, fallen over and hurt themselves etc thats vefire we get to deaths from alcohol poisoning , drunk driving which has the potential to take others down with you and hypothermia/exposure from passing out and spending the night outside in evening wear.

Vs the odd infection from a tattoo.

One may be more socially acceptable ( who bats an eyelid at a table full of friends having a laugh and a drink) but as far as harm temporarily or permanently and deaths alcohol is well up there isn't it?

Am particularly gobsmacked by the idea of psych evaluations before having a facial tattoo and the subtle implication that there is something mentally aberrant about such a choice.

I think that's an inference rather than an implication. Any time you get dentistry done, or a smear, or anything, the practitioner is ideally using their dental, medical or nursing training to make sure that you're able to understand what you're having done and the potential consequences. Obviously tattooists can't be expected to have the training to do that or to take on the professional liability, which means non-medical body modification like tattoos is being held to a lower standard than botox (which has to be prescribed by someone who can prescribe drugs, even if someone else actually injects it). If you wanted that type of body modification held to the same standard as botox, then you'd need prospective clients assessed by someone who's qualified to make that kind of judgement. Do you think anyone who gets botox (or dental work, or a smear) is mentally aberrant?

If you're gobsmacked by ideas just being discussed, not even advocated, then I don't know what to suggest… perhaps avoid discussion boards?

I love tattoos I have mainly opted for cats and recently had hieroglyphics covered by a beautiful cat. I personally wouldn't have my face done. The tattoo artist that I go to has one on her forehead and she looks amazing but it's definitely not my thing.

@Blossomtoes nope, still disagree. People are free to make daft choices in all other walks of life. Tattoos should be no different, whether facial or otherwise.

Sure, but each individual drink isn't having those effects.

In many cultures tattoos are highly important part of life. They date back to ancient Egyptian age, hardly a new phenomenon.

Facial tattoos are really common and highly regarded in many countries - of course it should be illegal though cos Sandra from Milton Keynes “doesn’t see the benefit”