How many more of these sick people will use this pretence?

[Logicoutofthewindow]

So yet again a man who has attacked girls has used the 'I identify as a woman' as a way of minimising sentence, an excuse, attempting to gain access to women and girls, or whatever reason he (I refuse to call it a woman) and he has to be pandered to because .... well everyone can self identify now and well TWAW.

We never used to have this mess. There have always been a small number of individuals who would feel differently. Now there appears to be a growing number of men who identify as women who are sex offenders.

How many more will use this sick pretence?

Should we accept this man as a woman?

Or am I being unreasonable and say there needs to be more checking before we blithely accept every man that says he feels like a woman now?

What do you think?

This conflation of "sex" and "gender" is deliberate and has helped this slip under the radar.

Sex is biological, binary and immutable - you remain the sex you are born all of your life. No-one changes sex - it isn't possible. Sex is either male or female - even those individuals who have Differences of Sexual Development ( more insultingly and inaccurately, "intersex") are either male or female.

Gender is societal and varies between cultures, and within a culture over time. All it is, is society's expectations of individuals of each sex. As such it varies massively and as society changes, so do the gender expectations.

If we got rid of many stereotypes then boys could quite happily wear make up, and girls could quite happily stop removing excess body hair (flippant examples) without feeling that they were "born in the wrong body".

No-one is born in the wrong body. You have a body - it is yours all your life. If you are lucky you will be able to love it, but even if you can't, look after it, because it's the only one you will ever have. You can alter it cosmetically and/or surgically, you can stuff it full of opposite-sex hormones and change some of its functions, you can dress it and decorate it in any way you wish, but it remains the same body, and the same sex, that it was in your mother's womb.

Yes, we need a way to distinguish between genuine transgender people and those who just pretend for nefarious purposes.

Like, I don't know, the necessity for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to obtain a GRC?

Having non nefarious intentions unfortunately doesn’t negate the impact of this person being male on women who cannot be in vulnerable places around males.

The women who need to share their experience of rape in a female only environment, thr women who have been the victims of dv who are terrified by the presence of a male, the women in a hospital bed who are extremely stressed out by a male being in the next bed, esp one who is violent from dementia, the teenage girls who don’t feel comfortable getting their clothes off in front of any male, esp a grown adult who likes to take a peek, the religious women excluded from public life because they have no spaces that are female only.

We can’t give away our spaces to the ‘nice ones’. A diagnosis of gender dysphoria doesn’t mean that a male is nice or is not going to masturbate in the hospital bed next to you.

This is exactly what self ID is and its currently supported by the SNP, Labour, Lib dems, the greens, and pushed for by organisations like stonewall

According to what definition? 😂

@WigglyWigglyWiggly why are you finding this funny? I don’t. There’s a male born trans person convicted of two rapes currently walking around Bristol, free to walk into any women’s space without challenge because of this.

This is the definition issued by Stonewall who has advised governments and thousands of organisations and instigated their self id policies.

This was the position of the Scottish government until they realised the optics created by double rapist Isla Bryson (and other male sex offenders) being placed in a women’s prison on their say so. Now they are not sure what their position is in trans identifying rapists but trans identifying non rapists are definitely women if they say so.

This was the position of the UK government before women started shouting about this (now they are not really sure) and remains the position of influential people like Caroline Nokes, Chair of the Women & Equalities Select Committee.

It is not possible to pretend to be trans. If you say you are trans, then you are. No dress code, no make up, no requirements to fulfil.

WigglyWigglyWiggly · Today 10:36

According to what definition? 😂

Stonewall.
You know, that massively influential LGBTetcetc lobby group who are advisors to our schools, political parties, the civil service, the public sector, the police, the BBC...

Put as many patronising smilies as you want, but that's their definition

The trans lobby itself stated it. If someone claims that are trans, then they are trans.

No debate.

No need to provide proof of any kind.

No need to say what "feeling like a woman" is like.

No need to modify their bodies.

No need even to get a shave, or wear a dress, or put on make-up - though many do.

All they have to say is "I am a woman" and they are automatically "women" - and have been "women", all of their lives, even though they may be married, and have fathered children.

There are many in this "debate" who rely on people being totally uninformed of the facts

Very well said

I’m not sure there is a clearcut dividing line between these two groups, and even if there were, I don’t think people should ever be wholesale treated as if they were the opposite sex, with no exceptions because placing any male in women’s spaces will always have an impact on the women whose spaces are being invaded.

If this is a genuine societal change (not sure it will be as I think there will be backlash that might see the whole concept rejected) or even if we only have to live with the fact that some people have modified their bodies so that they can no longer use their original single sex spaces without causing distress to others (heavily masculinised FtM transitioners, for example) we need to deal with it as a society.

I noticed recently that a large shpopping centre I visited had a single cubicle “for anyone” toilet at the entrance to the usual female/disabled/male toilet area. I think this is a healthy way to deal with it, but society must also return to the position that (especially where such spaces are available) it is socially unacceptable for anyone to use opposite sex spaces. Otherwise predatory men will continue to use the social loophole that has been opened up by telling women they must shut up if they see a man in their space.

I was going to post about this but tbh, I’m losing the will to live. He’s a man FGS, he hasn’t even had his nuts chopped off. The article is pandering to him by referring to him as a woman

Your post provides evidence for the accuracy of the first half of your user name, presumably you are "identifying" as the second part?

How exactly do you think people with gender dysphoria are helped by allowing sexual predators to exploit this condition for their own ends?

What’s your point? Are you fine with a man raping people?

Sex offenders need to be sent to the prison appropriate for their born gender. Only doing that will stop the nonsense of sex offenders thinking they can be let off if they claim to be trans.

@LibrariansGiveUsPower I agree with what you're saying but people are not born into a gender, their sex is observed and recorded at birth. Sex and gender are not the same thing and it's important to understand this as conflating the two is causing huge issues

According to what definition?

Try this from the Equality Act 2010 the definition of the protected characteristic Gender Reassignment:

In the Equality Act, gender reassignment means proposing to undergo, undergoing or having undergone a process to reassign your sex. To be protected from gender reassignment discrimination, you do not need to have undergone any medical treatment or surgery to change from your birth sex to your preferred gender.

Do you find that amusing?

If there wasn't a bevy of handmaidens enabling these men, this trend would have faded into obscurity long ago.

They aren't "trans women" - they are 'transwomen" (or more accurately "trans-identifying males").

"Trans" isn't an adjective - its a prefix, and it modifies the word it prefixes, it doesn't describe it.

eg: non (prefix) + sense = nonsense. the noun is modified to change into its opposite meaning

black (adjective) + cat = black cat; the noun is described to make it more accurate

The subtle shift from "transwoman" to "trans woman" is small but highly significant. It affects how we see something without our eve realising it. This particularly applies to forced pronouns

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

Even if he had his testicles removed @DaisyBoop, he is still a man. That's really the point. Your sex is the most significant identifier in terms of who is likely to be the perpetrator or victim in crime stats. Your sex will determine how you experience a heart attack. It will predict your likely life span and the kinds of services you will need during that life. It is a predictor of your likely income, pension value and competency behind the wheel. (Remember when women got better insurance policy rates? I do). It will determine what is possible in the sporting arena.

Cutting off bits of your body will not change the fact that every human on this planet is either male or female, was born from male and female parents. That sex is observed in utero and that any personality can be in either body and cutting your hair or wearing a dress is not going to change that.

I've just read the this on line.
How do the judges keep a straight face whilst talking a pile of shit, like her penis 😡

Equal treatment benchbook.

@WigglyWigglyWiggly

Firstly, as everyone has already pointed out, they're not women and never, ever will be.

We need a better mechanism to stop men being able to claim that they’re trans women and be treated as if they’re women.

Tragically, they only way to tell seems to be when one of the bastards is actually convicted of rape. And even then, people are still pressured into calling them "she."

I am massively struggling with this at the moment and I have wanted to post about it on MN but AIBU is just too much so I have purposely buried it here because it feels safer and actually there is another safeguarding aspect apart from men claiming to be women and raping them with their penis.

DD is 11 and is good friends with a M to F trans child. They have changed their name, grown their hair and have been trans for over 5 years. They are 12. They still have a penis, of this I am sure. I am also pretty sure they are not on gonadotrophin-releasing hormone analogues. I will explain why in a bit.

DD (thanks to school forcing the children from Year 3 to use the trans child's preferred pronouns and chosen female name and correcting them if they forgot) is 100% sold on her friend being a girl. I think she actually forgot that they used to be a boy (I reminded her). They have struggled in Year 7 as they seem obsessed with having a boyfriend, utterly obsessed, and have got a boyfriend a couple of times and then the boys have dumped them when realising that they are trans and male born. DD asks to sleepover at her friends house frequently and I refuse. I do let them spend time together during the day but always check that their Mum is around. DD was on facetime with her friend and both DP and I noticed that her friend now sounds like a boy (voice is breaking) the friend is also now starting to show puberty indicators that they are male (face shape changing).

As someone who experienced peer on peer rape at the age of 11 (he was 13) I am struggling with this massively. I am aware I might be projecting and shouldn't assume that this child is sexually deviant BUT I feel the risk is there. They have a penis. The potential is there. I also feel there are unspoken risks to these children in that trans children present as one way and their friends/boyfriends/girlfriends accept this at face value and therefore don't possess the full info to make decisions about them - imagine being a 12 year old boy getting his first GF and they have a penis and were born a boy? This is not fair on them. Imagine having a best friend who you want to have a sleepover with and can't understand why your mum is reluctant and actually scared. And as a Mum I can't even voice this as I am called a bigot, a TERF or close minded. I will do what is needed to protect my child fundamentally but this lack of being able to discuss this is dangerous and I can see this being a massive safeguarding fail in the future. Why? To protect an ego driven feeling about a socially constructed ideology. Madness indeed.

Treat your DDs friend as you would treat any other male friend that she has, Weddingpuzzle. I'm sorry you're feeling in such a predicament, it sounds hard.

I'm very sorry to read that, Wedding, it is madness indeed. I can only imagine what you are going through with that.

Most of us just want the best for our children and for them to be safe. With this institutional dishonesty, it seems so much more difficult.

I really hope this thread stays in AIBU & not hidden away somewhere else.

As we need to be talking about this as a society & for the good of society.
As at the moment it seems that only the rape/murder of Government minister or their child or someone else high up in the establishment by an autogynephile play acting as a woman, for things to change back to normal.
And God forbid it doesn't get to that stage for things to change!

Yes, its utter madness.

I don't give a flying xxxx what people want to call themselves, how they dress or how they talk but the bottom line is that man cannot change sex and become a woman and neither can they or should be able to violate women only spaces or use gender arguments as an excuse for rape, in fact it should become an aggravating factor.

The MoJ and the Government need to match their words with actions to put a stop to this.