To wonder what part of this statement reminded Gary L of Nazi Germany?

[marmaladeo]

This is Suella Braverman's statement Gary Lineker was reacting to when he said "This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s" ... twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1633094764865126400

If she was saying she wanted to stop immigration I could understand GL's reaction. But she's not. I don't understand why anyone would not want to "stop the boats" when 1. they're lethal and 2. they're being run by criminal gangs. If GL had made it clear he wanted to stop the boats but thought this policy was the wrong way to do it, then fine. But he didn't - he just made an extremely inflammatory statement. He might be getting lots of love from some quarters, but personally I think he's an egotist who is playing into the hands of the people smugglers.

You said Gary and your door have something in common, so do they or don't they? 🤔.

I don't think your analogy works tbh. I'd have left out the door bit.

He doesn't need to.

Which is kind of the whole point of the discussion elsewhere.

The use of language by the Conservative Government and the way it dehumanises people crossing the Channel in boats.

Illegal
Swarm
Invasion
Use of "The British people" - when it's clear she does not speak for all the people.

See also" Enemies of the people"

I don’t think you understand how evidence-informed discussion works 😂

the evidence provided has to actually be relevant and meaningful in the context of the discussion.

@Janiie
@jgw1 was responding to @SoTedious’s invitation to compare Gary Lineker to a front door.

She was providing evidence to back up her comment! If that is proving someone wrong well that's how it goes when posters challenge and ask for evidence.

Which comment?

This is so odd

I didn’t belittle or mock just said are you sure what you are posting is correct and provided stat. It wasn’t even a statement but a question

I’d say it is the essence of informed discussion. In that it was informed by accurate facts

I can’t relate to what you’re saying at all. There’s a good show called More or Less that spend a whole half / hour asking if something is correct. Informed discussion. I love it. Anything that takes data removes it from headlines and says whether it stands up or not.

Anyway it’s clear a fact has provoked you in some way. So just scroll on by if you see facts again.

I don't even think some PP's actually care about the details and context of immigrants arriving in the UK, it's just hatred of 'others'. Whether that would be Jewish Germans in the 1930s that were actually native born, or foreign nationals coming to the UK in the 21stc. It comes from the same position of absolute ignorance and bigotry, a massive, misdirected blame narrative. Always blaming others for their lot, rather than the Govt's economic policies, for instance. "Oh oh but but some Muslim men raped...sharia law bla bla bla" - the Islamaphobia on this thread is horrible, even the coded comments. Try engaging with actual rape statistics by white British men.

I usually despise the phrase "I know which side you'd have picked in 1930s Germany", but honestly, calling a spade a spade, there's a few folk on here that would have gleefully marked a certain party at the ballot box in 1933 and would have welcomed the subsequent dictatorship. And you can come at me if you want for saying that, I have no f**ks left to give. I've met people like you IRL so your bluster goes right over my head now.

I never realised just how much hatred towards minority groups still existed in the UK. And I remember the BNP and National Front of the last century very clearly. And having previously worked in a professional capacity with anti-racist groups for a long time, the last 8 years has been very illuminating and like nothing I could have imagined even 10/20 years ago. The increase in the use of inflammatory and dehumanising language is beyond depressing because it seems to be deemed acceptable again (from the extreme left as well as across the right), and sadly it's alive and kicking on MN.

@AlisonJo I've no idea if you're Jewish or not, but my DH is and he says to take his 'community's' name out your mouth, and perhaps stop implying that Jews are a homogenous group all united with the same viewpoints. He sees no issues with GL's tweet in the slightest. You don't actually care about Jews, only your political affiliation and how you can use them to score cheap points.

I'm out.

They seem quite exercised over it. Why?

Is it unsettling to have it presented

JustAnotherManicNameChange
the (few) Jewish people I've seen/heard talk about this are not offended and agree with the statement.
However, if the Jewish community did speak out against it I'm sure GL would apologise ... to them and abstain from such comparisons.

Several prominent Jews have spoken out in the Jewish Chronicle :
Karen Pollock, chief executive of the Holocaust Educational Trust, wrote in a Times op-ed: “However passionately we feel about important and pressing issues of the day, it seems to me that comparing those current concerns to the almost unimaginable horrors of the Nazi period is wrong.”
Holocaust survivor Agnes Grunwald-Spier MBE had said the Match of the Day host “should be ashamed” for his tweet.

www.thejc.com/news/news/shame-on-you-holocaust-survivor-tells-lineker-over-asylum-policy-tweet-4zb8cBppRtzYvTlwpQUNos

www.thejc.com/news/news/bbc-gary-lineker-to-step-back-from-motd-following-1930s-germany-firestorm-IA82pRikOpNFCFgNsrZuM

I can see where you're coming from though tbh I don't think doors can have compassion or intelligence

Boom! Well done, you got the point.

I don't think your analogy works tbh. I'd have left out the door bit.

Oh.. ok you didn't. Never mind, as you were.

Anyway... it will be interesting to see how this is resolved. I hope GL does not agree to any restrictions on his right to post his opinions, although that will probably mean he ends up leaving the BBC.

I also hope that Tim Davie is forced to resign for his mishandling of this. And Richard Sharp of course. But mostly Tim Davie, who has got on my nerves since his days as head of audio and music. Awful man, ugh.

People also forget that this is a two folded campaign and have no idea how it feels to be at the end of it.

The hate spreading might be the main focus , but the group it's aimed at is also targeted. It manipulates them into silence(put your head down,keep quiet they won't cone for you), it causes dissent amongst themselves, it tricks them into being grateful for simply being allowed to exist, while at the same time instilling a desire to prove they do deserve to exist. That they need to work harder,be better , aspire to be human,the right kind of human.

I'm from an (European) country that "swarmed", "stole jobs", "ruined the uk" , "stole benefits" and everything else. The cause of homelessness,increase in crime, failing of the NHS, overcrowding in schools, the breakdown of the infrastructure. Nevermind the treatment I got, the language,the abuse ,the derision , the jokes/banter , the exploitation etc from individuals and companies/government officials , you can't imagine how insecure , unsafe and paranoid it can make you when at every turn you are othered, and blamed and are told you must be better , but ideally you'd just fuck off back home and if you don't, you're part of the problem.

So don't tell me that language doesn't matter or try to reduce it to soundbites and a "main message" that's more palatable.

It's awful, you're one of the most polite posters I've come across and this hectoring and sneering over information you have politely posted that was asked for is bizarre.

Yes clearly facts have unsettled some.

I haven’t suggested you’ve belittled or mocked
why are you defending yourself against imaginary accusations?

Very odd

and now accusations of ‘being provoked’ by facts. <sigh>

ok you’ve provided some facts.
I’ve thanked you.

what more do you expect?

Do you need to be highly educated to have enough humanity to understand and empathise with refugees and see that what the government is doing is othering?

Thanks 😀I do sometimes get annoyed but generally try to keep on down low with tone

'hope GL does not agree to any restrictions on his right to post his opinions, although that will probably mean he ends up leaving the BBC.'

Yes let's hope so. We need fresh new talent.

More insinuations.

i love the irony that you’re responding to an excess of exclamation points to insinuate how ‘exercised’ I am 😂

Oh man just stop..

This is all getting a bit silly….

FurAndFeathers is a man?

Well I didn't know that.

As someone said, the Jewish population are not one homogenous mass with the same views.

I am sure you could also find Jewish people who agree with his statement.
And those who disagree.

Just as you can find in any group, people who agree with statements and those who disagree.

But if you are the Home Secretary, and a Jewish Holocaust survivor calls you out over language used, should you reflect on that?

And of course, Gary Lineker has had some Jewish people saying it's not appropriate. And some Jewish people agreeing with him.

The media will always find people from groups to back up their point of view. Say a prominent women said something wasn't sexist does not mean that it was not sexist - because such a woman does not speak for the entire female community

It is. Too silly. All I can say is let it go..

'As someone said, the Jewish population are not one homogenous mass with the same views.'

Well yes we've been saying that for ages yet folk kept suggesting one survivor who spoke to Braverman seemed to represent the whole population.

The ones who object to Linekers comments are just as important as the ones who don't and are allowed a voice too.

But you just say that anyone who agrees with GL is being extreme, dumb and lacking in objectivity so what discussion do you expect from this?

The government are lying to dehumanise people and blame vulnerable people for a problem created either by government incompetence or cruelty. And yes, they are using language reminiscent of the nazis. The Board of Deputies agrees. The UN has heavily criticised the UK.

That can and should introduce safe and legal routes, work with aid agencies build alternatives for those in refugee camps, with with foreign governments on capacity building to prevent the need for people to seek asylum and do 100s of boring things to work with our EU partners. But, no, you think the best thing to do is to make arrival in the UK so bad that they don’t want to come. It’s crazy. You would have to make Britain worse than being in a war zone.

If you see nothing wrong with what is happening, I suggest you reflect on your own moral compass.