To wonder what part of this statement reminded Gary L of Nazi Germany?

[marmaladeo]

This is Suella Braverman's statement Gary Lineker was reacting to when he said "This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s" ... twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1633094764865126400

If she was saying she wanted to stop immigration I could understand GL's reaction. But she's not. I don't understand why anyone would not want to "stop the boats" when 1. they're lethal and 2. they're being run by criminal gangs. If GL had made it clear he wanted to stop the boats but thought this policy was the wrong way to do it, then fine. But he didn't - he just made an extremely inflammatory statement. He might be getting lots of love from some quarters, but personally I think he's an egotist who is playing into the hands of the people smugglers.

Could the knowledgeable people on this thread please explain how do we know whether someone claimin asylum is genuine (i.e. a legal asylum seeker) if they don't carry a passport, hence we can't ascertain beyond reasonable doubt where they are coming from and whether they are being in fact persecuted?

Nobody has answered this question which is key

Slovenia, I assume you mean work visas for people sending money home as we’re not being persecuted here or at war in U.K. - for which I’m very grateful.

I do think that Eastern Europe as a by word for countries that are behind us should rightly change though.

You are tying yourself in knots, careful you don't fall over.

And could you please stop using the verb 'dehumanising'? Nobody is saying that illegal migrants are not human, just that immigration needs to be controlled

This thread is a chilling look at the potential future. Except - people can’t be removed to a third country if the UK doesn’t have an agreement with that country. We currently have none. People can’t be returned home if there is evidence they are at risk of harm - so people from Afghanistan, Iran, Eritrea etc would likely not be able to be returned. So where do they go? They’d be in indefinite detention in the UK - not able to work and contribute to the economy, just stuck at the taxpayers expense in a detention centre for years. And that includes, at this point, families and unaccompanied children. I don’t think anyone would be happy with their tax money being spent like this, with the moral implications or with the government again choosing to spend money on detention rather than funding and supporting communities.

mobile.twitter.com/AlasdairMack66/status/1634965280962265088

The language is designed to dehumanise. To make them into the outgroup so the moral values you apply to yourself shouldn't be applied to other people

Nobody is saying that the moral values are different or that they are not considered human. Just that immigration needs to be controlled.

Oh yes, absolutely work visas (hence “work and send money home”). I’m not suggesting British people should apply for asylum in Slovenia (yet). 😁 And I agree with your last sentence.

Do you know what dehumanising means?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization

Can anyone please answer this question? Or shall we assume that we have no basis to determine whether they are illegal or not?

Best not to refer to people as “illegal” migrants then. That’s what people mean by dehumanising - people are not illegal.

If you use the correct terminology, you won’t have to put up with people correcting your language.

Here’s a handy guide:

www.rescue.org/uk/article/refugee-migrants-asylum-seekers-and-immigrants-whats-difference

Go and read some of Ayaan Hirst Ali's publications. A Somalian born Muslim who also lived in Saudi, eventually fleeing to the Netherlands to escape a forced marriage having already suffered FGM as a child. She specifically talks about the dynamic between the influx of young Muslim men and Western women and the Left's policy of 'hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.'

“Talking about violence by Muslim men against European women is unfashionable in an age of identity politics, when we are supposed to operate within a partly historical matrix of victimhood.” It is even harder, she notes, when the topic is a “favorite of Russian agents of disinformation as well as ‘alt-right’ trolls.”

'Or shall we assume that we have no basis to determine whether they are illegal or not?'

Oh careful the twitter clip bot will be launching as we speak. Don't say illegal. Say illegal people traffickers.

How do we know they are not illegal if we don't know where they are coming from? Whether their country is at war, whether they are being persecuted, etc?

They might as well be illegal, If they were, we could say so, couldn't we?

The Home Office will determine the claim. Maybe FOI it and ask for details of it proceeds in these cases?

There’s a whole asylum system whose only job is to assess claims and decide if they’re genuine. That’s what we mean when we talk about claims being processed and accepted. Claims will only be accepted if there is clear evidence that the person in question is genuine. This is literally part of what the Home Office is for.

They might as well be illegal, If they were, we could say so, couldn't we

People who cross the Channel in boats

Doesn't hurt, does it?

How it proceeds.

The bar isn't Beyond Reasonable Doubt.

The Home Office has a list of acceptable evidence, objective, documentary, medical, witness etc.

Have you asked FOI?

Oh, I see the racist is back to accuse migrants of sexually assaulting women and girls in the UK without any evidence.

I'm actually one of only a handful of white British people in my current workplace, which is run by Indians

is it? Or is run by British people with Indian heritage?

if so I’m astonished - surely “everyone knows about the risk to women’s safety from men of Indian heritage”. Assaults are well publicised. I’m astonished you choose to risk your safety so recklessly!

or do you hold an alternate stereotype about people from India?

It's all very unclear

Google its quicker

righttoremain.org.uk/toolkit/evidence/#whatisevidence

No. I have not sent a FOI request on this to the Home Office. Might be interesting to do so, though.

What do you mean if we don’t know where they’re coming from? You can know where people are from even if they don’t have their documents. Let’s use a really really basic example which probably accounts for just a minuscule amount of officially assessing a person’s country of origin. If you’re on holiday and Germany and meet another white person, how do you work out where they’re from?