To wonder what part of this statement reminded Gary L of Nazi Germany?

[marmaladeo]

This is Suella Braverman's statement Gary Lineker was reacting to when he said "This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s" ... twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1633094764865126400

If she was saying she wanted to stop immigration I could understand GL's reaction. But she's not. I don't understand why anyone would not want to "stop the boats" when 1. they're lethal and 2. they're being run by criminal gangs. If GL had made it clear he wanted to stop the boats but thought this policy was the wrong way to do it, then fine. But he didn't - he just made an extremely inflammatory statement. He might be getting lots of love from some quarters, but personally I think he's an egotist who is playing into the hands of the people smugglers.

I suppose telling people they lack original thoughts is one way to go but I’m reminded of Brexit and people feeling dismissed. Then it won (even with higher celebrity endorsement for remain).

Imo mn isn’t that aligned to public opinion, otherwise remain would have won, and hence the polls on this topic

Or be retired. They could pay a team of people for what they pay Lineker.

The statistic I quoted is accurate and from the gov site and not propaganda

Ah, such innocence. It’s endearing. I wish I was so lacking in cynicism that I believed everything I read on the government’s website and that it wasn’t propaganda.

Ah yes I forget there’s no good stats out there, not ONS not gov collated

Except The Guardian they’re the best.

Or maybe sourced from their own head

And very likely exactly the same thing will happen here.

this legislation will likely never be enacted but the government will use it to create straw man hatred towards people who cannot answer back and to secure the unthinking populist vote for the next election.
its the leave campaign all over again

and folk keep allowing themselves to be manipulated using exactly the same tactics again and again, and so keep voting in a government who has demonstrated over the last 13 years that they don’t give a shit about the working classes, NHS or public services.

It’s honestly baffling.

I don't know what you're talking about, who you're referring to or why you've edited my post. Rude.

The BBC and the govt should have just let Lineker's comments go. He's just not that important but now they've increased his status. But he should have been given the push a couple of years ago. He gets paid far too much for what he does. And if he'd been a woman, the BBC would have got rid of him as he hit his 60s. So it's not as if the BBC are against getting rid of people. And really, at the end of the day, he just let's other people talk about football and doesn't do much else.

It is very reminiscent of the Brexit "debates". A load of lies were spouted by one side. No matter how many times simple facts were not pointed out they were not believed by some.

The other striking similarity is that Brexit was an excuse for the Tory party to blame an out group for the problems they had created in the same way they are doing with asylum seekers now.
Amazing that the same people will fall for it again.

I’m not sure what will happen at next GE. But I do think a lot of these threads just up the ante for people feeling dismissed and derided, which is similar to Brexit

And really, at the end of the day, he just let's other people talk about football and doesn't do much else.

Exactly right so why is there such a hoohah about what he says on Twitter?

If Gary Lineker didn't earn such a fat salary from the beeb I wouldn't care WHAT he said.
He has a giant ego and his 4.9 million tax bill. Pay your tax Gary!

Exactly!! They've given him an importance he didn't have. As I've already said, they should have ignored it and him.

Tbf many posters could avoid those feelings by providing evidence, applying more critical thought, and after 25 pages, grasping the very basic terminology around people who arrive here in boats.

continuing to refer to them as illegal when we all know that’s incorrect, making racist claims and name-calling isn’t exactly the dead-cert method of avoiding derision and dismissal some posters seem to think it is.

the responses are being given because of the behaviours shown. You don’t get to behave obnoxiously and have people be courteous and respectful in return A you can’t expect respectful debate when your argument comprises name-calling, racism and ignorance of the law.

Some posters here seem to think that such approaches should be lauded and when they aren’t, they believe it’s the fault of those of us pointing out these flaws that they feel disenfranchised, dig their heels in and vote for the party that will continue to make their lives worse. Self-reflection is a useful tool.

they could avoid all of that with some reading, reflection and critical thought about what the government’s motives might really be, rather than blaming MN posters for their inability to manage their own feelings.

no one is saying that everyone has to agree - of course they don’t.

But blaming MN posters for feeling dismissed and derided in response to unpleasant opinions you’ve expressed, and then allowing that to be the driver of your political decision-making seems pretty dumb to me.

@jgw1 I ❤️ you!!! I couldn’t have put it better. Thank you for sticking with this thread and trying to educate people. It’s a losing battle obviously. People believe what they want to believe. And you’ll be insulted as lefty or woke or Guardian reading (I don’t like The Guardian much as it happens!) but hey ho, lump everyone who doesn’t agree with them together and hurl some poorly constructed insults at them!! That’ll do a great job of setting us all against each other. Funny really because I am complaining about the language being used on MN and in general: the insults, the emotive language and the rhetoric which isn’t factually correct. And I guess that’s what Gary was complaining about too. So yeah, I guess some of these posters are proving his point! It all trickles down and it sets us against each other and means we lose the ability to have a sensible discussion. So thank you to you for keeping a civil head and posting facts instead of insults. I’m not sure it’s working, but it’s important we do consider the effect of language on our behaviour as a nation.

It is odd the way that people can allow the lies, the failed policies, the destruction of public services, the terrible way that Brexit has been carried out, the move to restrict people's right to protest and strike and yet, give people something to blame it on (apart from the Tories who of course won't take any responsibility), they will turn their anger on people from other countries in a heartbeat.

FurAndFeathers exactly

Those who keep repeating the lies about illegal asylum seekers are unlikely to change thier minds. I live in hope that some passing posters may though gain some knowledge from my posts.

I think the government has been successful in its actusl aims around the "stop the boats" announcement. It's created a massive polarising debate in which plenty of its core voters agree with its position.
Huge look over here moment to stop everyone looking at the energy crisis, food insecurity, creaking infrastructure (trains, water capture and storage), the crisis in social care, the shit show that is the NHS, sewage and chemicals in our rivers, massive jumps in child poverty, huge issues in the childcare sector.....
Despite the huge impact on the poor individuals involved the issue isn't nearly as pressing as any of the above. The numbers involved don't compare. Far far more people are impacted by port health and social care and issues with childcare and the long term ramifications of polluting our water ways or failing to have a strategy to secure energy etc are far greater issues than focusing what we should be doing about 45,000 people last yr who crossed the channel in small boats.
I'm mean hats off to them it has clearly massively worked hasn't it....

It has in the sense you describe, but is it going to lead to the Tories securing more votes at the next GE, or has it so repulsed the middle part of the electorate that they are even less likely to vote Tory in the future?

Oh and of course we all know (even if the BBC hierarchy won't admit it) that had Lineker said something positive on Twitter about the new migration policy, nothing would have been done. He wouldn't have been censored for breaching 'impartiality' rules. We all know it.

Well that’s in part human nature I suppose, in the end feeling talked down to etc just makes people feel more strongly

It’s not just mn of course, recent campaigns that used celebrities didn’t win (thinking of US elections and remain).

I don’t know if it will play out same way, and I doubt anyone is going to change from posting as they do

But as a remain voter who was a bit shocked Brexit won I have thought about why that was the case a fair bit.

Thank you for sticking with this thread and trying to educate people. It’s a losing battle obviously. People believe what they want to believe. (...) It all trickles down and it sets us against each other and means we lose the ability to have a sensible discussion.

I have a feeling, though, that you think only call it sensible discussion if people are agreeing with your pov. 😄 Because your statement definitely reads that people are ill educated unless they agree with you. Maybe you didn't mean that, but that's how it sounds.

I am pretty confident I know what will happen in next GE. Conservatives will secure their places again.
I am actively planning to emigrate by then. Not even joking or overexaggerating. People are already having issues sith EUSS system (aka windrush 2.0), hate crime is on rise and basically egged on by gov and quality of life is down.

I am sadly surd they will win again and it will get worse. Just look at people on here already eating it up and refusing to accept correct information and so many happily accept drop in quality of life (cause it's all them immigrants innit, if we stop it it will get better). There is no way tories will not win.

The thing I find baffling is that is such an obvious straw man argument from the government.

Do posters genuinely believe that if it weren’t for 40,000 people a year arriving in small boats, the energy crisis, food insecurity, the cost of living crisis, the creaking train infrastructure, the crisis in social care and mental health services, the chronic underfunding of the NHS, the active discharge of sewage and chemicals in our rivers, the massive jumps in child poverty etc etc would all be sorted?

and if not then why are you supporting the government to ignore all of these issues that directly impact you and your families, and instead spend significant parliamentary time on a bill that may well never be passed?

No, the issue is people who make up or won't accept the facts where they don't support their opinions.

Btw they might be using this to keep people's attention away from fuck ups like Retaied eu law bill, eu/NI/ROI/GB movements, nhs, underpaying staff and having massive strikes, breaking conduct and so on and so on.

The shit storm is just starting