To wonder what part of this statement reminded Gary L of Nazi Germany?

[marmaladeo]

This is Suella Braverman's statement Gary Lineker was reacting to when he said "This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s" ... twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1633094764865126400

If she was saying she wanted to stop immigration I could understand GL's reaction. But she's not. I don't understand why anyone would not want to "stop the boats" when 1. they're lethal and 2. they're being run by criminal gangs. If GL had made it clear he wanted to stop the boats but thought this policy was the wrong way to do it, then fine. But he didn't - he just made an extremely inflammatory statement. He might be getting lots of love from some quarters, but personally I think he's an egotist who is playing into the hands of the people smugglers.

TBF people don’t have to agree with anyone.
but if they think the very well qualified lawyer in the video that provoked this comment is wrong, then it would be helpful to see the evidence supporting that viewpoint.

because whilst we live in a democracy, it isn’t true that all opinions are equally valid.

Yes people do believe that. They fall for a trick that is as old as the hills, but which never fails to work on some section of the population.

Some people don't want any immigration at all. Well at least not the wrong kind of immigrants.

Meanwhile Sunk Sunak is going to present his "back to work" policies tomorrow. Because we don't have enough people to fill the vacancies. Cue some othering/blaming of people over 50 or whichever group he is targeting. Or maybe he will invite some of the right sort of immigrants to come here and help us

this legislation will likely never be enacted but the government will use it to create straw man hatred towards people who cannot answer back and to secure the unthinking populist vote for the next election
its the leave campaign all over again

This is so very true. It is very sad but also enraging.

He never said Nazi germany, he said Germany in the 30s, there’s a big difference. A load of regular German citizens didn’t get up one day and decide to collude in sending their friends and neighbours to death camps.

I can't help but think we are living through some kind of rejected Yes Minister sketch.

Humpherey: Minister we have a bit of a situation.
Minister: What is that?
Humpherey: Gary Lineker has tweeted comparing us to 1930s Germany.
Minister: Who?
Humpherey: Gary Lineker - the footballer.
Minister: Oh that's ok no on listens to footballers anyway.
Humpherey: He presents one of the BBC's biggest programmes and has 7 million twitter followers.
Minister: Oh. Something must be done.
Humpherey: That is why I came in to ask what you would like doing.
Minister: Get the BBC on the phone I must tell them that they must tell this footballer that he is a very naughty boy and they must well I don't know sack him or at least make him apologise.
Humpherey: Very good Minister.

Some time later.

Humpherey: Minister the situation has developed somewhat.
Minister: What situation?
Humpherey: With Gary Lineker's tweets.
Minister: Well I told the BBC to tell him off, they did that?
Humpherey: Yes they did.
Minister: So the situtation has been solved.
Humpherey: Well Minister not exactly.
Minister: Why not exactly the BBC did sack him? We cannot have people saying we are Nazis.
Humpherey: The BBC have suspsended him from tonight's show.
Minister: Good.
Humpherey: Not exactly. Everyone to do with football at the BBC has walked out.
Minister. Good, no one likes football.
Humpherey: Many voters do. Remember you had to go and watch a match to pretend to be like the people.
Minister: I thought Manchester Town played very well. Is that who Lineker played for.
Humpherey: You watched Manchester City, and no Lineker played for Leicester and England.
Minister: Oh. What is the situation anyway.
Humpherey: More people are talking about how we are behaving like 1930s Germany.
Minister: What do they mean? Gassing people know.
Humpherey: Not that was in the 1940s Minister. They mean things like silencing people because they disagree with the government and stoking hatred to futher thier own ends, telling broadcaster what to say and so on.
Minister: Well we would not do that. We are British. That is the sort of thing that goes on in other countries. We are a bastion of democracy and free speech.
Humpherey. I will ring the BBC and tell them not to sack Lineker then.
Minister: Why?
Humpherey. Because you said we are a bastion of free speech and don't silence people.
Minister: Oh.

@jgw1 I simply don't know the impact it will have on voting intentions, but I I'm imagining that the conservative party think it's a helpful distraction. My guess is that it will prove tricky, lots of people will have felt impacts by next year (less disposable income, long waits for NHS care, issued with granddad's social care needs etc). Depends on how successful the government is at blaming the war in Ukraine or international factors on its own stuff ups. Can't blame Europe any more (although there is some attempt to blame the lack of a "proper Brexit).Dunno how they're going to blame crap all workforce planning for the NHS or planning for an aging population on Putin but no doubt they will have a go..

😂 i read it in their voices in my head

The ArchBishop of York and charities have written an open letter to Sunak.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/12/migration-bill-is-cruelty-without-purpose-says-archbishop-of-york

Part of it reads:

“We urge ministers to rein in their inflammatory words that all too often echo the language used by racist groups,” they write. “Dehumanising people in order to target minority and protected groups of people can only draw frightening parallels from history.”

I was them as I wrote it. It was scary.

I think I might repost it on its own thread so it gets a wider audience. Was quite pleased with it.

I haven't read all 26 pages but from what I've read, I wonder how many have actually worked with immigrants, a much larger group than asylum seekers. There's so much more nuance to the issues than people address here. But immigration policies are always a very (too) blunt tool. I can see both sides. And I can tell you I've met quite a few immigrants I'd be quite happy to put on a boat and sink myself. I've also met immigrants that make a fantastic contribution to the UK, even though occasionally unlikeable(!), they're exactly who we need in our workforce.

But I've learned you'll never get people to change their points of view by just denying everything they say. By hammering on at them. For every fact you believe, they have a fact. You rubbish their fact, they rubbish yours. To make progress you have to concede other people have valid views. But when you talk about trying to educate people, particularlybwgere you hold strong views, you're putting them on the defensive. There's no meeting of minds. You won't move the argument forward, no one will change - they'll just become more entrenched on both sides.

That's why saying or implying people are Nazis, if you genuinely want a policy change, is non productive. It gives no one any position to manoeuvre to save face, etc.

Humphrey would say he was making a courageous decision.
Unless he had an ulterior motive.

True.

The very intonation of what they wrote (see the press release they e published) screams propaganda.

People just can't think critically and see what's written rather than the meaning of what's written.

@jgw1 😂Amazing. It's somewhere between Yes Minister and The Day Today.

I see certain posters have descended into outright hate speech overnight. (Or continued it, more like). It mind blowing and quite staggering how many PP's throw about the word 'woke' in response to any kind of defence human rights. (Well unless it's in defence of White Brits of course). There's a lot of hate going on in some people's heads - what miserable women you must be. I'd almost feel sorry for you if I didn't think your words were so utterly damaging.

I posted this tweet on another thread last night, but it's just as pertinent here:

twitter.com/Bonn1eGreer/status/1634732087067529217

"This hatred gradually developed from ideas, words, stereotypes & prejudice through legal exclusion, dehumanization".

No it means it doesn't matter how many times the video explaining asylum seekers is posted there are idiots who still call them "illegals".

The actual tweet: twitter.com/AuschwitzMuseum/status/1601171008139845633

👏👏👏👏👏👏

I think I'd enjoy watching something you'd written

Press release - what do you mean?

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2022/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2022

Could you let me know which figures are incorrect and why, specifically due to how they are written.

It seems you are commenting on figures but misunderstanding them but it’s hard to even discuss as I think you’re referring to an article or headline?

Nightlystroll no, not at all. Inflammatory language is unhelpful whichever side it’s on. As it happens on this thread posters such as Anklespraying have used some really dreadful language calling people names and using phrases like “defend our borders” which is precisely Gary’s point. Look what happens when the government invite this rhetoric. However it works both ways. And when my now exDH used to go around saying all Brexit voters were either thick or racist (or both), I would tell him that this was nonsense. I understood why he thought that. I don’t happen to agree. But that’s not the point. When you say things like this the language is insulting and details a proper attempt to debate. It fluffs up people’s feathers and they dig in harder. You can’t insult people and then expect them to listen to you with an open heart. And that goes for any person arguing any point. Not just points I happen to agree with!

Read the book "In the sea there are crocodiles" and then come back and tell me that the boats are run by criminal gangs.

Headline statistics can differ from when you drill down into the data.

It's easy to give false impressions from headline data, instead of looking into the detail

jgw1 I thoroughly enjoyed your sketch!!

The link is full of detail, did you open it?

What are you disagreeing with?

'If Gary Lineker didn't earn such a fat salary from the beeb I wouldn't care WHAT he said.He has a giant ego and his 4.9 million tax bill. Pay your tax Gary!'

Yes some sanctimonious posters with their spam really lose sight of what the issue is regarding Gary.

If he wants to post inflammatory crap on twitter then he should be free to do so but licence payers are equally allowed to object. He has to decide which hat he wants to wear. Activist working for a private companies? Fine. Millionaire getting paid millions by licence payers and posting his ill informed ideas? not fine.

e,g,

Overall, males represented 87% of small boat arrivals in 2022. This proportion is similar to the proportion of males each year from 2018 to 2021.

In 2022, almost half of small boat arrivals were from these 2 nationalities - Albanians (28%) and Afghans (20%), as shown in Figure 4. Albanians were more prominent from July to September 2022, whereas Afghans became more prominent from October to December 2022.

That does not mean that 87% of Albanian arrivals were men.

And you can look at the approval rate - which is also massively behind so that also skews the statistics as well.

Lord Sugar?

www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/11/gary-lineker-was-singled-out-from-a-long-list-of-bbc-stars-who-express-political-views