Sitting in a reserved seat on a train

[SummaLuvin]

AIBU to think there is nothing wrong with sitting in a reserved seat on a train providing you move quickly and without fuss if the booker comes along?

I always look for an unreserved seat, but if there isn’t one I take my chances. Frequently the person who reserved it never shows up - whether they miss the train, can’t get to the seat as it’s so busy, or can’t be bothered to find their seat as it’s quiet… If no-one ever sat in these reserved seats then on busy trains the aisles and areas between carriages would be even more crowded, so I see it as more of an issue for them to be left vacant. But some people seem to think it’s a faux pas to ever sit in a seat that is reserved. What’s the general consensus?

I find asking particualrly awkward because I'm reasonably young and healthy. There's no real reason why I need or deserve a seat more than the person I'm asking to move. If it was a shorter journey with the usual free for all for seats, I'd usually let most people go in front of me.

It's really stressful for some people to have to ask others to move. Some people do not take being asked to move well.

But it's several minutes past departure from the station the seat was booked from, fine.

I know where you're coming from @PinkVine ,I'm like this .
I'd reserved a seat from Manchester Picadilly ,I was tired and feeling ill after a torturous journey fro Northern Ireland .

I'd reserved a window table seat ,it was occupied by a mother with 2 children .I thought oh well ,it's tough being a mum and travelling with children and she probably has enough on her plate and didn't think to book .Or maybe didn't book early enough to secure a table offering 3 seats for her party .
So I let it go .

Why some posters on here can't even do the tiny step of seeing things from the pov of someone who feels uncomfortable having to ask someone to move astounds me .

Not if no one else can sit in it out of fear of getting yelled at. According to people in MN it's a travesty to sit in a reserved seat if it's empty. It's ridiculous. Just sit in a seat and if the person who reserved it comes along, move. Otherwise as you say, booked seats where someone no longer is travelling just go empty. That is more ridiculous

DP never used to ask, but the following factors have made him far more able to do so;

a. Travelling with me. I've had entitled tossers taking up my disabled access/reserved seat needed as a result of disability so many times that I really don't give a fuck anymore.
b. Middle age. He's gone from a short, waif like young man to a short, shaven headed (actually bald, but people can't tell the difference) bloke with obvious muscles.
c. Work experience. He's now had to deal with hundreds of dickheads far bigger and scarier than your average twat on a train.
d. Positive results - being invited to sit in First Class for free in front of the most arsehole-ish of seat stealers, people skulking off making tutting noises or saying 'Ah, shit, sorry' and moving.

Obviously there are still some people I won't bother with - a stinking drunk, obviously belligerent women with their mates, that sort of thing - but on the whole, it's far more pleasant to not have to weigh up the chances of getting abused or assaulted for the crime of wanting the seats that been booked and paid for in the first place.

In short, don't rely upon somebody feeling able to risk confrontation to shift your arse; sit somewhere else.

@journeyofsanity According to people in MN it's a travesty to sit in a reserved seat if it's empty.
Really ? Then why have have 71% of posters said it's not unreasonable to sit in an unoccupied reserved seat ?

According to people in MN it's a travesty to sit in a reserved seat if it's empty.

No, that's not what people are saying.

What a lot of posters are saying is that:

• Don't sit in a seat that is reserved from the station you boarded the train. Wait to see if the person who reserved the seat turns up.

• If you are that stupid/rude to sit in a reserved seat from the station it's reserved from and the passenger who actually booked it boards after you & reasonably expects to have the seat they've booked, get up without protest & do it quickly. You're holding everyone else up.

This.

I haven’t said someone shouldn’t move from a seat when the reserver arrives. I agree that is basic manners.

I have said that if you want people to be actively trying to work out whether someone getting on the train has reserved the seat they are sitting in without that person being explicit about their reservation then you are unlikely to be effective if you just stamp your feet in a forum saying things like “I can’t” and “How dare you”.

@NumberTheory

Actually what you are doing being goady as fuck. You are unwilling to accept its none of anyone's fucking business why I can't ask and in the context of the thread makes no fucking difference.

If I say 'I cannot ask, please be aware' that is enough to answer OP question. You do not need to be retiring rime and time again to goad me because I am not willing to share my disability so you vipers can decide whether or not it's an adequate excuse.

This is a problem disabled find daily. We do not need anyone to make judgments on us and what we can and cannot do. We need people to fucking take at face value I cannot do that.

Nobody needs to know why I cannot ask OP to move from the seat. I have been more than reasonable and have said 'just be aware when you get to the booked station of people approaching the seat' - that is enough.

I’m not trying to goad you. I do get what you mean about MN vipers judging, picking apart people’s explanations, twisting what’s said. Especially on AIBU. I have tended to find it’s better to get those sorts of points across by talking in the third person rather than the first on here. (Which has been done effectively on this thread by a few posters).

Posters are going to be making those same judgements if you don’t explain the reasons too. People are sceptical of claims that someone “can’t” do something because most people have a lot of experience of that sort of claim not actually being true. You won’t effectively fight that experience by simply insisting that people must believe you. When you try, you reinforce many people’s idea that you could really do it.

I’m not trying to goad you.

I don't believe you.

I do get what you mean about MN vipers judging, picking apart people’s explanations, twisting what’s said. Especially on AIBU. I have tended to find it’s better to get those sorts of points across by talking in the third person rather than the first on here. (Which has been done effectively on this thread by a few posters).

How patronising.

Posters are going to be making those same judgements if you don’t explain the reasons too.

Here we go again

People are sceptical of claims that someone “can’t” do something because most people have a lot of experience of that sort of claim not actually being true.

But actually, it makes no odds to anyone in the context of the thread even if it isn't true, because the advice to 'be aware at the station the seat is booked from' stands regardless.

You won’t effectively fight that experience by simply insisting that people must believe you. When you try, you reinforce many people’s idea that you could really do it.

I'm not trying to 'fight' anything, I think I made that very clear already. Im not responsible for 'educating' people and I have no fight to have.

Why do you think the default position when a disabled persons cannot do something is that they should educate others and fight? Why can't others simply believe then and get in with their own lives? Why did you need to say a single word to me at all on this thread? Maybe if you were a better person you would simply have read my post and thought 'oh yes' then got on with your day. But no, you simply had to raise a non issue.

Let's say a train calls at Atown, Btown, Ctown and Dtown.

If a seat is reserved from Atown and you get on at Atown, it's rude to immediately sit in that seat and force someone to have a confrontation with you about why they should sit in a seat they've paid for. If there are no seats and you hang around until the train has moved off, if it's still vacant after 15 minutes, the owner probably didn't get on, and you can claim it, but keep an eye open for someone who just got on the wrong carriage and has been slowly making their way over.

If a seat is reserved from Atown and you get on at Btown, and there are no signs of occupation, it's fair enough to sit in it, being mindful that the rightful owner of that seat might actually be on the train, and just have gone to another carriage to buy a coffee.

If a seat is reserved from Ctown and you get on at Atown, you can sit in it, but you should ideally move into another seat before it gets to Ctown (if there are other seats available) or at the very least, have all your stuff gathered up, so you're ready to move as soon as someone gets on at Ctown and eyes up your seat.

I'd only sit in reserved seats that I knew weren't being used, and only then, only if I couldn't find a wholly unreserved seat. You have to be really mindful that not everyone can communicate well or likes communicating with strangers, and your convenience does not trump theirs.

This. It’s standard travelling manners.

Let's say a train calls at Atown, Btown, Ctown and Dtown.

If a seat is reserved from Atown and you get on at Atown, it's rude to immediately sit in that seat and force someone to have a confrontation with you about why they should sit in a seat they've paid for. If there are no seats and you hang around until the train has moved off, if it's still vacant after 15 minutes, the owner probably didn't get on, and you can claim it, but keep an eye open for someone who just got on the wrong carriage and has been slowly making their way over.

If a seat is reserved from Atown and you get on at Btown, and there are no signs of occupation, it's fair enough to sit in it, being mindful that the rightful owner of that seat might actually be on the train, and just have gone to another carriage to buy a coffee.

If a seat is reserved from Ctown and you get on at Atown, you can sit in it, but you should ideally move into another seat before it gets to Ctown (if there are other seats available) or at the very least, have all your stuff gathered up, so you're ready to move as soon as someone gets on at Ctown and eyes up your seat.

I'd only sit in reserved seats that I knew weren't being used, and only then, only if I couldn't find a wholly unreserved seat.
You have to be really mindful that not everyone can communicate well or likes communicating with strangers, and your convenience does not trump theirs.

Agree with your top parts, but I don't think it's reasonable for people to have to exhaust wholly unreserved seats just in case someone gets on later and doesn't want to identify their seat.

If someone gets on at C town, it would be unreasonable of them to object that someone from A town is sat in their chair because they don't want to say that's their seat when they get on at C Town. The train operators don't expect everyone to leave seats free just in case someone doesn't want to talk to someone else.

If someone gets on at C town, it would be unreasonable of them to object that someone from A town is sat in their chair because they don't want to say that's their seat when they get on at C Town. The train operators don't expect everyone to leave seats free just in case someone doesn't want to talk to someone else.

This is exhausting. Sometimes people cannot talk to somebody else. Stop minimising. The train operators don't give a shite where you sit or even if you sit, but if OP is on my seat for A and I get on at C then OP can easily scan at C and see me approaching so perhaps say 'is this your seat, I shall just move' or (before you hit back with it) in the event OP also cannot speak then OP simply moves because the seat is booked from C. If no one arrives at C and the journey continues, go back and sit down.

It's not that big a deal. Unlike minimising disabilities as a choice.

@LolaSmiles don't think it's reasonable for people to have to exhaust wholly unreserved seats just in case someone gets on later and doesn't want to identify their seat

no one is suggesting that .

they are saying
sit in it, but you should ideally move into another seat before it gets to Ctown (if there are other seats available) or at the very least, have all your stuff gathered up, so you're ready to move as soon as someone gets on at Ctown and eyes up your seat.

@moonpixel -I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've posted .Sadly you're flogging a dead'un here .

Thank you, sadly I think you are right.

Exactly. If you're chancing it with a seat, it's on you to make sure you move graciously and quickly and not force someone into having a protracted interaction they just don't want to have.

I'm not saying you should never sit in a reserved seat, but if you do, you have to stay alert for someone wanting their seat - you can't plonk yourself down and pretend to go to sleep and expect them to try to get your attention.

This is exhausting. Sometimes people cannot talk to somebody else. Stop minimising. The train operators don't give a shite where you sit or even if you sit, but if OP is on my seat for A and I get on at C then OP can easily scan at C and see me approaching so perhaps say 'is this your seat, I shall just move' or (before you hit back with it) in the event OP also cannot speak then OP simply moves because the seat is booked from C. If no one arrives at C and the journey continues, go back and sit down
Again, I agreed with being ready to move.

What I dispute is the idea that someone should only be sitting in a seat reserved later in a train's schedule if theyve exhausted the options that are unreserved for the train's whole journey.

amberedover
I get that and agreed with the poster about it.

It was the later suggestion about not sitting in a seat with a future reservation unless you've exhausted the train for any other seat that is wholly reserved that I don't agree with.

I don't think you should walk up and down the whole train, but I think you should exhaust your immediate carriage first. Or as much of the immediate carriage as you can manage, based on your health/circumstances.

I don't think you should walk up and down the whole train, but I think you should exhaust your immediate carriage first. Or as much of the immediate carriage as you can manage, based on your health/circumstances
Fair enough.
When I read up thread I was thinking about the size of trains near me and thinking I'm not walking several carriages to find a seat that isn't reserved anywhere on the journey when I'm only on for part of the trip.

I have a glance around when I get on, but otherwise will take any seat that's showing as not being reserved for most of my trip. I'll happily move and look up to check if we pull in somewhere that the reservation is for. It could say more about our local trains but pacing up and down the aisles looking for seats would be a nightmare Vs people going to the nearest free seat that isn't reserved at the point of boarding.

@LolaSmiles

Again, I agreed with being ready to move.

That's not at all what you said earlier...

If someone gets on at C town, it would be unreasonable of them to object that someone from A town is sat in their chair because they don't want to say that's their seat when they get on at C Town. The train operators don't expect everyone to leave seats free just in case someone doesn't want to talk to someone else.

Gosh, no. If all the seats really were reserved, chances are most would be sat in, and the whole train would be busy. The aisles are so narrow that it's not worth speculatively going from carriage to carriage with all your stuff unless the train guard has made an announcement that it's a busy train, but carriage X has loads of free seats (they do sometimes say helpful things like that).