What % of your income from work do you spend because of work?

[verdantverdure]

AIBU to ask you what percentage of your income from working you spend because you are working?

A younger family member has asked me to cast an eye over her sums and it looks to me like she can't afford to go back to work after maternity leave.

Once you add up nursery and the commute, she's already running at a loss even before she buys new work clothes to fit her post pregnancy figure and current norms at her workplace.

Not including convenience foods such as pre chopped veg or a bought in lasagne etc so she can get dinner on the table soon after she gets home, or takeaways for the nights she's too shattered to do that.

A cleaner do her weekends can be family time not housework time?

Treats to cheer her up because life is a bit of a grind?

Stuff like hair, make up and nails so she looks "groomed" at work?

What about you?

What percentage of your income from working do you spend because you are working?

Primary aged children. I spend less than 10%of my income going to work. I’ve halved the wraparound care costs in my calculation as half would be for my husband as well.
When I had 2 children in nursery around 70% of my income was spent on going to work (again have split the nursery fees here as half would have been for husband).

We are hugely better off in the long run with me working even though those few years when both were in nursery felt like it wasn’t worth it.

I’ve never had to get my nails done or be ‘groomed’ in order to go to work.

If she doesn’t want to work that is a valid choice, but there are very few situations where you wouldn’t be financially any better off in the long run by not working.

And of course the costs of childcare are a joint cost between both parents

When I went on maternity leave with my second I was really surprised to discover how much I spent on working - or if not direct expenditure on working, then expenses I didn’t have when I wasn’t working.

• Childcare is the big one - we cut that right down when I wasn’t working
• Commuting - I commute by train and it costs £30 a day
• Work clothing
• Takeaway coffees and lunches (no, these aren’t essentials, but I’m counting them because I didn’t spend money on them when I wasn’t working)
• Cleaner (again, not an essential, but with our commutes working life working life would be fairly miserable without one, and not needed at all when I wasn’t working)
• Could cook much more cheaply as it was easier to meal plan, shop for reduced ingredients etc
• Kids’ toys and clothes - had more time to look round charity shops and FB marketplace for secondhand stuff

On the other hand I spent more on kids’ activities, kids’ food and heating when not working, but a pittance compared to the above.

With two kids in nursery I’d say about 75% of my income goes on expenses associated with working. Yeah, I know childcare isn’t solely my expense, but it’s an expense we wouldn’t have if I didn’t work.

I’m carrying on with work though because this is a temporarily expensive phase and I have a career you can’t pick up and put down.

What on earth is she doing for a job where she has to spend money on her nails?

Would part time work be a possibility? I know in my profession I would struggle to get back into it if I took several years off. I work 3 days a week and the balance works well for us.

Don’t most people do housework when the kids are in bed/ at the weekend?
Yes it’s hard work but isn’t this something you think about before deciding to have a child?

I only just broke even when I went back (assuming we -incorrectly- attribute all the nursery costs to mum rather than half of them). But even in those years earning meant pension contributions. And then as nursery costs went down (free hours from 3 etc) and my career progressed this quickly changed. Within 5 years my childcare costs were negligible and my salary had doubled

I bought (and still buy) work clothes second hand, and just rotate a few simple classic outfits.

I also worked compressed hours to reduce nursery costs relative to earnings.

Also, not working means dependence on your spouse's job to be secure, your relationship to be secure etc. I would always prefer to have my independence !

When I worked for a large consulting firm, the only required grooming standards were clean, smart clothes (smarter for external mtgs, more casual if just in the office, even jeans were fine for the office), clean/tidy hair, clean skin, and clean nails. That was it.

I didn't wear makeup, or heels, or get my nails done. I had a regular haircut because, y'know, hair tends to grow. But my hair grew whether I was working or not, so it wasn't required specifically by my work. None of that hampered my promotion or career prospects in the slightest.

Yes I never understand the 50% of nursery fees each thing. 100% of nursery fees come out of total household finances.

If those nursery fees exceed one party’s income, then the household is better off with a SAHP.

This isn’t to say that there are reasons to suck it up and work for free for a while if the parent wants to - you’d still be accruing pension for instance and keeping on to your job for when nursery fees get subsidised or the child starts school. Or the parent may simply enjoy working.

No. Too many women say they can't afford to go back to work because "childcare costs more than their salary"

But you can't look at it like that. It's an investment in the future. Only half that cost is for the mum to cover.

If a mum works during her child's young years she has more scope to earn well later on. And most importantly of all, she's neither reliant on a man nor benefits. Both of which can be capricious.

My friend always has beautiful nails. She does them herself with cheapo nails polish. It certainly isn't a "work cost" that needs to be factored in!

Come on, OP, just admit it. She doesn't want to work and is looking to justify her decision. The real question is, does she have to justify the decision? If she wants to stay at home, is her DH supportive of this? Or is she creating spurious reasons not to work because he has indicated that he doesn't want to be the main breadwinner? Ultimately, if he is happy with the idea of her staying at home, then it doesn't matter what it would cost her to work. And if he doesn't want that, then no amount of silly accounting is really going to change his mind!

What about the costs not to work?

loss of pension contributions
loss of pay rises
cafe lunches out during the week
baby/toddler classes
Hair cuts and make up to go out to socialise with other mums
Breakfast, lunches and snacks for child (nursery would provide these)
petrol to get to toddler classes and other activities

If those nursery fees exceed one party’s income, then the household is better off with a SAHP

That is an extremely short-term attitude.

"Yeah, if you don't get home until 6 or 7, then do bedtime and make dinner I don't know when you would do housework except the weekends if you didn't have a cleaner."

It really comes down to what choices they realistically have and the impact they have on them now and in the future. Most of the expenses you listed are choices that don't have to be made. I know women who look very well put together for business without doing nails or spending much on hair etc. they don't change clothes frequently either a few quality staples even at a young age.

By showing you this is she looking for advice or could she be hoping to highlight that she won't be well off and hinting for some help from family in terms of money/ childcare or both?

I did 6:45 am to 6:45/7pm when DC 1 was a baby. Main work related cost was commute which was nearly £210 per month. It isn't pleasant to do that then come home do cooking, cleaning, prep tomorrows packed lunches ironing etc and some stuff has to be done on the weekend but we didn't really have any choice. Before DC was old enough to eat with us we did do some M&S prepared meals picked up from the station on the way home. We also did some batch cooking so we weren't doing it everyday. Some nights was just scrambled eggs or omelettes.

Without my job we wouldn't have bought a house and I wouldn't have pension contributions. It was a sacrifice as I would have loved to be with my kids at least part time but it was the right choice for us. What is right and works for someone else depends on their circumstances.

DH comes from a background where men do sweet fa with regards to house and children but we shared costs and family work.

And also yes, sorry it’s ridiculous that she feels she has to spend money getting her nails done “for work”. She absolutely does not. Many (most?) professional women do not get their nails done. 🙄

This
Unless she is a hand model. In which case she can probably expense it.

But @Wishawisha this is why the SAHP earning potential becomes lower and lower and it becomes harder then to get back into work. So many threads on here from SAHMs saying they’ve split up and now need to earn and find it difficult.

Me too.

Big corporate office, I went in wearing walking trousers, a fleece top, gilet and a woolly hat. I don’t wear makeup. I took my own lunch, and could have helped myself to free hot drinks and sanitary products while I was there.

The deputy CEO came to see me, she was wearing similar, including a massive scarf that could double as a blanket. This is a normal day.

I made chicken Chasseur last night, put new potatoes in the pressure cooker and veg in the microwave steamer on the way out to swimming lessons. Dinner was on the table 10 minutes after we got home (bonus points for showered children with hair washed and dried).

We don’t have a cleaner, I’ll accept we have pretty low standards compared to your average MNer though.

Yes I never understand the 50% of nursery fees each thing. 100% of nursery fees come out of total household finances.

Correct. So you can either assess it based on 100% of nursery fees come out of 100% of the household income, or 50% of the nursery fees come out of each employed parent's income.

In some cases yes, the household will be better off if there is a SAHP. But if both parents work, then both parents are responsible for child care during their working hours. We just seem to accept that this will be one partner's unpaid job in many cases.

Er that’s why I said this next: This isn’t to say that there are reasons to suck it up and work for free for a while if the parent wants to - you’d still be accruing pension for instance and keeping on to your job for when nursery fees get subsidised or the child starts school. Or the parent may simply enjoy working.

Did you read the rest of the post you’re quoting from?!

I don’t know anyone who uses nail varnish or polish on their nails, and everyone seems to still be in gainful employment.

Short term you just have to suck it up, the costs might be almost as much as the salary.
But long term, going back to work is key. No one in their right mind should rely on someone else to pay for their life - what if they decide to fuck off elsewhere? And not going back to work penalises the woman in terms of pension, career progression, deprives her of income. Income that she might need one day.
Tempting though it is to stay at home, she really ought to get back in the saddle.
All costs are shared costs, the other partner should shoulder 50%.

When I go back to work after Mat leave in September I will warn just over £2500 a month and my nursery bill will be just under £2500 a month. When I worked it out, it’s about 98% of my wage on nursery bills. Such a depressing thought I don’t even want to think about fuel and car costs getting there and back! 😮

It's corporate.

She says all the women at work use nail bars and blow dry bars and wear office heels. She thinks she's the only one who doesn't have some form of hair colour. Highlights generally.

She says she would really stand out and not in a good way if she didn't conform.

She says nails in particular are a work grooming standard and not one she would bother with otherwise.

She hasn't spent any money on hair cuts or make up on Mat Leave but would have to for work.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard. Of course she doesn’t have to get hair, nails and make up done for work. She’s just looking for excuses.