What % of your income from work do you spend because of work?

[verdantverdure]

AIBU to ask you what percentage of your income from working you spend because you are working?

A younger family member has asked me to cast an eye over her sums and it looks to me like she can't afford to go back to work after maternity leave.

Once you add up nursery and the commute, she's already running at a loss even before she buys new work clothes to fit her post pregnancy figure and current norms at her workplace.

Not including convenience foods such as pre chopped veg or a bought in lasagne etc so she can get dinner on the table soon after she gets home, or takeaways for the nights she's too shattered to do that.

A cleaner do her weekends can be family time not housework time?

Treats to cheer her up because life is a bit of a grind?

Stuff like hair, make up and nails so she looks "groomed" at work?

What about you?

What percentage of your income from working do you spend because you are working?

So, if she is rejoining the workforce, or returning from mat leave, it should be clear that she is now earning to pay the mortgage and the bills, or at least half of it.

She is on maternity leave. So is still employed. If she wanted to leave she'd need to quit and probably work a notice period, the same as anyone else / her husband, I presume.

Do people really itemise their earnings like that? We never have. Ours is simply an in and out equation.

When I was on maternity leave:

-partners salary came in
-my SMP came in
-child benefit came in

-mortgage came out
-council tax came out
-bills/insurance came out
-living expenses came out

Then when I returned, I substituted my SMP for salary and then added nursery on to the outgoings.

I have no idea who’s money pays what. All our money is ours and all our bills are ours. But when one of the incomings change leading to another outgoing (hours increasing leading to nursery costs for example) then it makes sense to compare those when conducting “is it worth it?” Calculations.

I agree. We only have one pot, one bank account where all money goes in and out of. But lots of other people seem to do it differently.

Yes but not 5 days each week. If you are doing 12 hour shifts then you usually do 3 a week.

On the specific case none of it makes any sense.
This is child number two.

So she's been doing the commute, nursery, cooking and cleaning.

And obviously decided it was fine and then had child number two really, really close to child number one.

So knew exactly what it would entail and cost

You haven’t included what she’s currently missing out on. You could say she’s currently being paid the cost of childcare, but she’s missing out on pension contributions, work experience, and promotions. The hair and nails issue is a bit silly. She can paint her nails herself and learn to put her hair up smartly in a ponytail or bun for pennies.

@Dishwashersaurous

As pp said no one working those hours or earning that money would use a nursery.

They'd get a nanny

Op also seems determined to make it eye wateringly expensive while ignoring all the benefits of working

Exactly. They would have employed a nanny for number one. Which is why it's then cost effective to have children really close together, as no further childcare costs.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

General debate about cost of childcare makes sense.

But to give such a ridiculous example undermines the general argument

Childcare should be expensive.

It should also be subsidised for those who can't afford it.

Op can.

Or she's had twins, which does completely change the maths and the various calculator particularly for the first two years

But twins would be a salient first point to mention

So I suspect troll

@verdantverdure if they are a partnership the starting point is working out all expenses and chores and then looking at joint income.

The best way to maximise income and reduce expenditure is for both parents to work 4 days, either compressed hours or part time. Both maximise their personal allowance and any drop in income is the element that has the most deductions so the drop in net income is less than expected. You save 2 days commuting costs, 2 days nursery fees etc. and both have set chores for their NWD.

Families where both parents work 12-13 hour days, 5 days a week, generally use nannies. Both as it's normally cheaper, than nursery plus extra childcare and because it means young children don't spend every waking moment away from home during the week.
That's the bit you're missing. The other bit is that, cost of living rises not withstanding, parents who know they have these types of schedules plan in advance and having a savings pot to fall back on. If after, having a second child, you then start to plan, then your options are more limited, as you're seeing. Has your friend explored the idea of having a career break, and going back when the 30 hours childcare kicks in? That might be a good compromise and better long term for her career than quitting altogether.

Maybe about 50% of my income is spent due to me working - the only things I would count for that are work clothes, fuel costs and childcare costs.
Other things you've said about convenience foods and things I wouldn't class solely as because of working.
Hair/makeup I would do regardless of working, same with treats for myself. A cleaner is nice and great if you can afford it but is definitely a luxury

But they would never work 12 hours, 5 days in a row

I don't think you are making the point you think you are here.

No... it's a very small number of places, and one appears to cater to US expats. Hardly an indication that blow dry bars are frequently used by corporate women.

I also think just because there's a run of them in a small area of London, that it means women are obliged to go to work with a bouncy blow dry. It's entirely optional.

I wfh so working costs are probably a smidge of extra electricity, at a push the boiler goes on an hour before it used to in winter.

I wear my normal clothes, in fact, it's cheaper as I can wear pj bottoms and just put a simple top on. I've not bought new shoes since before the pandemic. I wouldn't do hair and nails and make up for working over and above what I would do outside of work (which is basically - clean).

Thanks everyone for replying.

Nobody buys work clothes. You just wear the same stuff you wore before pregnancy, or during pregnancy, or on Mat Leave.

Nobody’s body changes due to pregnancy or breast feeding.

Nobody goes out for a Boots Meal Deal at lunch, let alone a Pret sandwich.

Nobody buys prepared food or orders in because they’re tired.

Nobody has to look presentable or professional at work. That’s why everyone famously adhered to the exact same wardrobe, make up, hair and nail polish choices during lockdown and Mat Leave.

Nobody so much as has unprotected sex without first saving up £50k to pay for a couple of years of nursery fees.

Nobody with a commute has children.

Nobody gets a cleaner. You push the hoover round once you’ve got the babies to sleep.

@verdantverdure

Are you still banging this drum?

It's very odd

If you don't want to go back to work, don't.

If you want to give up the alleged 4k corporate career, give it up

You don't need to justify it. No one cares

Umm no, loads of people do those things. But loads also don't because they don't afford them. They point most people were making were that they weren't necessary or essential (pret sandwiches, getting nails done etc).

Loads of people with a commute have children. Probably less have a crazily long and expensive commute 5 days a week.

I'm sure you're right.

It's not an issue for millions of women and society and purely down to an individual woman's personal choice.

That's why the government has addressed it in the budget.

@verdantverdure

The govt have addressed your sexist belief that childcare is a woman's cost and that all women who work need a cleaner?

Really?

@verdantverdure I think the point a lot of women on this thread are trying to make is that it doesn’t have to be an issue for millions of women if we don’t accept that narrative. By pushing back and saying that the cost of childcare is joint, by protecting your earning potential for the future and not just accepting that the men go to work and excel in their careers, by saying that actually how well a woman does her job is more important than what she looks like.
I almost always take a packed lunch to work. I’m not sure why that’s so hard to believe