School celebrated a Muslim LGBT activist on International Women’s day!

[Threemangoes]

AIBU to be annoyed at the school? I’m baffled as why have the school missed an opportunity here. They already celebrate lgbt history month and then pride in June at school.

Why is this issue that affects a very tiny minority is so heavily influenced in children’s curriculum?

So, you're saying children should have no information beyond knowing that some people live with the same sex and some with the opposite sex? You don't want children to have picture books with mummies and daddies in? You don't want children to read stories like, say, Cinderella? You wouldn't expect children ever to talk about kings and queens and their children, or wars over competing claims to thrones?

👏👏👏

I think @SarahAndQuack the post is deliberately being obtuse.

The point I am making is we should not shoehorning issue into school and LBGT is one those areas that seems to be everywhere - when clearly a very small percentage of the population are LBGT. Of course we should recognise that we treat people equality and with respect. At primary school children do not need some of the information that has been presented to them. In this specific case I do not know what was said but the day was International Women's day so I would have thought it would be more appropriate to focus upon issues that most women face not the minority within the LBGT group.

I'm not being deliberately obtuse - I am trying to show you what a double standard you are proposing.

I do not follow why you think children don't need to know about lesbians, when clearly, you are perfectly happy with them knowing about straight people.

What @GrumpyPanda says.

Right. So, just let me check: when women risk death because of FGM, that's important. But when they risk death because they're lesbians, that's not. And when women suffer from period poverty or the gender pay gap, that's only important so long as they're not being lesbian about it?

Of course all of these issues are important and should be discussed. But surely, sexuality is important too. And so is religion. This is a woman who comes from a background where it is really hard to be a woman. And you think that's unimportant, because she had the nerve to be a lesbian as well.

@SarahAndQuack
Not double standards just a different point of view.

Stop being deliberately obtuse and toxic.

You know full wel noone is saying to not talk about lesbians. We are saying that on women's day there are 100s of different topics to discus that are not being discussed that involve women while LGBT issues is almost religiously being centered most of the year.

And before you go ahead and say even more stupid nonsense, I am LGB and I'm not white.

How is it not a double standard if you believe children deserve to learn all about the lives of straight people, but you think they don't need to know anything about gay people beyond 'people are different but treat them equally'?

If you really think children need to learn to treat everyone equally, then children need to learn about gay people just as they learn about straight people. You need more than 'yes gay people exist but we don't talk about it'.

Do you struggle retaining information?
Lgbt already gets dedicated time and coverage in curriculum.

What on earth has you being LGB and white got to do with it?

I am not being obtuse. I don't believe I am being toxic. But I would love to see where the primary school is, where lesbians (mark you, lesbians, not 'LGB' or 'LGBT') are all over the curriculum. I simply don't believe it exists.

NONE OF YOU WERE THERE.

You're using an imagined event as a weapon in a fake culture war.

I'm not even engaging with the 'Muslim lesbians aren't part of Muslim girlhood' stuff. Or the Section 28 (Reprise) stuff. Are you not all very tired? So much twisting and turning to avoid saying what you really want to say about groups of people you don't like. Boring.

Because you accused me of thinking it's not important she's a lesbian and talked about how hard it is about being a women with her background assuming I don't fucking know because you thought I am white and straight like so many ignorant people in this thread.

There is a good statistical chance, that I know a lot more about it than you.

You ARE being obtuse and you ARE being toxic.

You do realise that the celebrations of LGBT people are now dominated by people with transgender identities, many of whom are heterosexual? Trans identifying males who identify as women and are only attracted to biological females (otherwise known as heterosexual males) are getting actual lesbians thrown out of pride events and kicked off lesbian dating apps for being "trans exclusionary"?

People advocating for the existence of single sex spaces and services (which are particularly important to certain minority groups such as, oh let's see, Muslim women for example) are being dismissed as transphobic bigots.

If you think LGBT events are putting Muslim lesbians front and centre, you clearly haven't attended many.

I do not follow why you think children don't need to know about lesbians, when clearly, you are perfectly happy with them knowing about straight people.

This is fallacious logic. Because the OP has said that there are two months donated specifically to gay, queer, non binary and lesbian people, on the one day that is dedicated to women, it would be nice to have someone whose struggle or achievements were related to issues other than their sexuality/sexual identity.

This doesn't mean there can't be a lesbian speaker, if she wanted to talk about her struggle to close the gender income gap or to work in engineering or to solve period poverty. This also doesn't mean that there shouldn't be exploration of intersectional struggles. But maybe in the much greater time (months) donated to the other disadvantaged groups.

There is only one day donated to thinking about all women. Saying that it would be nice to talk about issues that might affect a broader group of women is not cancelling lesbians because they would be included in that group. It is not saying to lesbians to stay in their box, because they are lesbians and women, by definition. If pride month is not foregrounding the particular struggles lesbians have then that is another issue that should be addressed separately.

I'm really not being obtuse and toxic.

Look, I think @MeganTheeScallion has a good point that this is getting emotional. I don't think it is a fake culture war at all, but I think maybe I'm not being clear enough where I'm coming from.

I would love to see my DD's school invite a lesbian to talk on IWD. It's not that I don't share your fury about all the other injustices of the patriarchy. I really do. But I don't think lesbians get much visibility at all, especially in schools. I do really worry that a lot of people still believe that same-sex sexuality is something that shouldn't be discussed with children. That creates a culture of secrecy and shame. And what that looks like, for me, is my daughter going into school and me worrying about whether she's going to get the same sense of participation in her education that other children get. I worry that, when she is innocently talking about her everyday home life, adults will unintentionally make her feel it's inappropriate, or abnormal in a bad way. I worry that other children won't be given enough context not to make her feel different and as if she doesn't belong. To me, it seems that having role models of adults who are lesbian would be a good thing.

Yes, sure, it could also be a good thing on other days, but I think if you never include lesbians in IWD, you are sending a message that lesbians aren't really women. Again, for me - this is just me explaining why I am invested in this - this really matters. My DD already gets a lot of social messages that lesbians aren't really women. She already hears people questioning. So she is growing up with a message that is harmful, that you can't be a lesbian and a 'real' woman. I think surely that is a message worth combatting on IWD.

I'm really sorry I've upset you as much as I obviously have (or sorry the issue has upset you). But perhaps you can see where I'm coming from more now.

I'm sure you can squeeze in a lesbian or two in 2 months in a school. This is such a non argument.

And you are right, I do not attend "LGBT" events because they turned into a perverted circus that has nothing to do with me. I'm LGB and I'm just a normal person. And again, I told another person but let me reiterate, I'm not white and I'm not straight. I know very well how Muslim women are dismissed as bigots.

And guess what, I still think on the one day of the year not talking about sexuality and women's issues instead would be much better.

I'm replying to this poster saying specifically that she doesn't think children need to know, though.

If you want lesbians to be included in the 'broader group' of women then you include them, eg. by having a lesbian as your focus for IWD. You can't say you're including people then be furious that they were included.

How is it jeopardising the futures of Muslim girls exactly?

I am muslim, and a woman, but I get the impression that you are also Muslim, and in our community we know declaring homosexuality is a terrible thing (I don’t think it is, but I’m in the minority, even among my close circle)

You keep harping on that LGBT gets plenty of exposure at school, it does, but not from a Muslim perspective, it’s hard enough being a female Muslim, being female and a lesbian is just opening yourself up to abuse from the Muslim community.

Whoever this speaker was, needs to be celebrated, she isn’t jeopardising the future of Muslim girls, she is openly discussing her sexuality for which many families would quite happily murder her and describe it as an honour killing.

The fact she is talking, opens up the opportunity for acceptance within the community.

This speaker talking isn’t going to turn Muslim girls gay, but it opens up the path for Muslim girls who are gay and too scared to disclose their sexuality for fear of the repercussions

It is actually people like you that is jeopardising the future of Muslim girls.

I think I am beginning to think we should have no days or months for any group - rather we should try to promote a culture of tolerance permanently. I agree that can be viewed as somewhat idealistic.

The OP never said she was invited to speak, just that she was spoken about. She may even have been talked about along with other women but OP isn't getting all outraged about them because "Muslim Lesbian" makes a better clickbaity thread title.

I see now. Thank you for explaining and I'm also sorry if I upset you.

I guess the issue mainly is, that I feel that if we are going to normalise being a lesbian it needs to be treated as a normal thing and not something that has continous focus on. I am older and I had less issues 2 decades ago. People have become more racist and more homophobic and I feel like its partly because it's being pushed down people's throats by nonsense like critical race theory and queer theory.

We need to take women's spaces and words back first so we can normalise all women again. Being married to a woman needs to be treated like being married to a man, nothing special, just something some women do.

Girls and boys have no idea what strong women look like and why women are amazing. The focus is on being pretty and sexy. This is part of why they think lesbians are not women because they are not being portrayed as other "women" in the same sexist stereotypes but different ones.

I'm not sure if i'm making sense. I'm tired and still have stuff to do so I'm logging off. Have a nice day

Tolerance is probably the word that offends me most. Who else would need to be tolerated? Would you consider "tolerance" an appropriate way to co exist with disabled people around you, or people of a different colour? Or just lesbians?

You're either struggling to follow what I've said or you're deliberately misunderstanding it.

@Marths
Fair point - it does depend upon what actually happened and as I wasn't there I don't know.