To think its time to get rid of personal titles ie. Miss, Mrs, Ms?

[jumpingbean1810]

I was ordering something in a shop the other day and the assistant, in her 20s, was putting my details into their system. She said, I hate asking this, I find it so embarrassing but are you Miss, Ms or Mrs? I replied I'm Miss. I was there with my daughter so in that one exchange I'd divulged I was a single, unmarried parent. It's not information the shop needs for me to order a lamp. And if I was a man, they'd be Mr and none the wiser as to marital status. I know I could say Ms but does any married woman really use Ms? So Ms just ends up sounding like a Miss with issues. It got me thinking why do we need personal titles, how often are they really used anyway? Can they not just be scrapped from form filling? With the increasing desire by the younger generation to not even be defined by gender, identifying women by their marital status feels so outdated. It's international women's day tomorrow and in the spirit of embracing equity, isn't it time we abolished women being defined by marital status?

Ah, well since you agree that women should have equal rights and opportunities to men, and also that choice is the most important factor here, presumably you believe that men should also have a choice of titles according to their marital status.

I wonder why no one is campaigning for this.

What makes you think feminism is about a right to choose something? It's about equality with men which means that if they are allowed to choose something women should be too.

But then the women whose crowning achievement in life is finding a man to marry them wouldn't be able to show off about being a Mrs.

Because I'm not a man and I don't care.

So because it isn't problematic for you, it shouldn't be problematic for anyone else?

I thought you were all about choice?

Or are you only about you having the choices you want, and screw other people?

Men don't seem to care about having this choice either.

Almost as if identifying yourself according to your marital status isn't actually beneficial.

Show off? Even though a pp said she wanted to keep it because it keeps a connection for her to her late husband. And undoubtedly many women want that connection to their families too.

Not very nice of you. If you see that as showing off maybe you should reflect on why you feel that way. Because I'm fairly certain that feeling is nothing to do with the choices other women make and more about what's going on with you.

And it's naive to say that other people's behaviour is their problem alone. If that were true, nobody would be bothered by it.

I wasn’t talking about behaviour I was taking about assumptions. If we stopped being bothered about other people’s assumptions about us we’d be much better off. And I notice you’ve very cleverly segued away from my point about turning feminism into an alternative form of tyranny. Any thoughts on that?

Other way round. Men have no choice, perhaps they should be offered it?

Not really, since I have never once said that women shouldn't have the choice to be Mrs or Miss.

That doesn't mean we can't point out that the naming system is patriarchal and advocate for it to be phased out.

The best way of doing that is to encourage the younger generation of women, who have never been married, to actually think about the significance of changing their name and title upon marriage, and consider rejecting it.

Other people's assumptions do affect us in a negative way, whether you care to admit it or not.

I'm pretty sure they don't want it, since it wouldn't be beneficial to them in any way.

It's a symbol of female oppression.

The best way of doing that is to encourage the younger generation of women, who have never been married, to actually think about the significance of changing their name and title upon marriage, and consider rejecting it.

I'll encourage my girls to make their own choices. 😉

Nothing is going on with me.

A name and title is only a connection to your late husband if you conformed to the patriarchal tradition of changing your name and title upon marriage in the first place.

I am happily married but have not changed my name. If the worst were to happen and my husband died, I do not think my choice not to use his name or change my title would make an iota of difference to my grief, or my ability to maintain a connection to him after his death.

It's a symbol of female oppression.

If you feel oppressed about it then don't use it.

Clearly others don't feel the same way about it as you do.

Fab to get rid of them. They are not needed at all.

Isn't it funny how we all think differently, have different beliefs, different connections, deal with grief differently and so on. It's almost as if women aren't a hive mind 😲 :-)

The way you feel isn't actually relevant.

It is a naming tradition which disadvantages women compared to men by categorising them according to their marital status.

We are all oppressed by it, whether we feel oppressed by it, or whether we personally choose to use it or not, because women as a class are oppressed by it.

Men are not oppressed by it because they are not categorised in this way and do not have these titles.

For what it's worth, I am starting to agree with you that you are not a feminist.

I am happily married but have not changed my name

Happily married? That sounds a bit smug. What about people who aren't happily married. Didn't you stop to think of them?

If men want to campaign they can do so.
My guess is they wouldn't be bothered

Oh no, really. Don't I pass?

Oh well. I did tell you :-)

What about them?

Well you seem to think that what matters is having a choice within a patriarchal system, rather than women actually being equal to men.

The way you feel isn't actually relevant.

It’s relevant as the way you feel about it. Other people’s assumptions about you might affect you, they’re water off a duck’s back to me.

The way either of us feel about it isn't relevant.

I'm not talking about feelings, I'm making a factual observation about the reason why these various titles exist for women but not for men, and the fact that this is rooted in patriarchal tradition.