To think its time to get rid of personal titles ie. Miss, Mrs, Ms?

[jumpingbean1810]

I was ordering something in a shop the other day and the assistant, in her 20s, was putting my details into their system. She said, I hate asking this, I find it so embarrassing but are you Miss, Ms or Mrs? I replied I'm Miss. I was there with my daughter so in that one exchange I'd divulged I was a single, unmarried parent. It's not information the shop needs for me to order a lamp. And if I was a man, they'd be Mr and none the wiser as to marital status. I know I could say Ms but does any married woman really use Ms? So Ms just ends up sounding like a Miss with issues. It got me thinking why do we need personal titles, how often are they really used anyway? Can they not just be scrapped from form filling? With the increasing desire by the younger generation to not even be defined by gender, identifying women by their marital status feels so outdated. It's international women's day tomorrow and in the spirit of embracing equity, isn't it time we abolished women being defined by marital status?

Any more thoughts about your form of feminism and dictatorship or will you continue to ignore that?

The inconsistency of some feminists.

I think it should be renamed. And the boundaries changed. So that freedom of thought is allowed.

And it includes all women. It's just not very inclusive.

👍

Your words are being carried away in the wind Blossom. It's a cold blustery day. I don't think she can hear you.

What dictatorship?

I'm not advocating for these choices to be taken away.

I'm saying that the existence of these titles is rooted in patriarchy, and women should be encouraged and empowered to reject them.

Encouraging women to say "fuck the patriarchy" is kind of a central tenet of feminism.

I'm divorcing but still use Mrs. Tbh I haven't given it much thought and this thread certainly provokes thinking about it but I don't like being pushed that I'm letting all women down for where I am rn

I prefer being a Mrs. It's what I've used and been used to for the last decade, changing it is time consuming and I don't know if it's something I'll come to agree with how strongly others feel or not over it yet while lots of things are higher up my priority list for women's rights and making a stand over them

If they wanted it I am sure the choice would exist. Funny enough they don't seem to want titles that indicate whether or not they are married.

I bet if I asked every single man I know they'd say they've never actually thought about it

Do you think that if they did think about it they would want to choose a title to indicate whether or not they were married?

How about we look at things slightly differently? Why is women having a choice of what title to call themselves oppression? Surely it's actually the opposite? We have choices, men don't. Men have Mr, end of. All labelled the same without choice. What do they call themselves if they wish to identify themselves as married? As single? My husband actually likes being married to me, I know he'd use the equivalent of Mrs if there was one. I'm sure many men actually would! And most certainly wouldn't give head space and judge those titles that other men might choose to use if they were available. Surely the absence of choice is also a sign of oppression? Women say they are oppressed due to their lack of choice in some things. Then, when there is a situation where there IS choice, that's also oppression. Some people just like finding offense where there is unlikely to have been any. I honestly think it's women judging other women with regards to titles. Not men. Admittedly I don't know every man, but I know quite a few, and I've never heard one judging a woman on their title! Women on the other hand...

Signed,
"Was happy to be a Miss / Ms, now happy to be a Mrs, and honestly can't say I've ever given it any head space / judged anyone else for choosing a different title because I don't see it matters / never felt oppressed / never felt judged over any title I've given to anybody ever..."

Yes, I feel really sorry for all the poor old men not being able to choose a title that indicates whether they are married. I'm sure you are correct and that they really want to and that is why they have been campaigning for it for years (not).

My husband would just do whatever was easiest he honestly wouldn't care. He would not have been bothered if I hadn't changed my name and became Mrs. It's just not something he'd be bothered about

In Germany, all adult women are 'Frau' (=Mrs). Frauelein or Miss is only used for girls.

Why is women having a choice of what title to call themselves oppression? Surely it's actually the opposite? We have choices, men don't.

We don't have the choice not to have assumptions made about our personal lives and/or our politics based on what title we use.

Men have Mr, end of. All labelled the same without choice. What do they call themselves if they wish to identify themselves as married?

They wear wedding rings.

But I guess a male title equivalent to "Mrs" would be harder to remove if someone wanted to pretend to be single in order to cheat on their wife, or make a potential employer believe that their family circumstances won't get in the way of them working late, doing regular business travel or single-mindedly pursuing promotion.

My husband actually likes being married to me, I know he'd use the equivalent of Mrs if there was one. I'm sure many men actually would!

Really?

How do you know?

I wouldn't be so sure if I were you.

Surely the absence of choice is also a sign of oppression?

No, in this case it's a sign of equality; men aren't subjected to some archaic social hierarchy based on whether they are married or not.

I don't feel sorry for them. But then, I don't feel sorry for myself (or oppressed) by having the choice to use whichever title I fancy... And no, they aren't going to campaign for different titles to be introduced. Mostly because they don't care about titles, their own or ours, that seems pretty much something some women seem to get hung up on. Men are simple creatures for the most part and don't look for oppression. Maybe because they haven't been the oppressed, so maybe fair enough women are more sensitive to a perceived sleight, but still, I personally tend to feel that not getting hung up on things is probably the best way to not feel oppressed. I've got more pressing issues to occupy my thoughts with rather than whether someone is judging me on a title I have chosen to use. Each to their own I say!

Yes, I feel really sorry for all the poor old men not being able to choose a title that indicates whether they are married. I'm sure you are correct and that they really want to and that is why they have been campaigning for it for years (not).

yep, tiny violin

I'm going to tell a story which doubtless some of you on this thread will think is made up, but I swear on my mother's life it is completely true.

I went to a little village school on the outskirts of a small town. My Year 2 teacher, let's call her Miss Pankhurst*, taught at that school for over 30 years, from her 20s to her retirement, and never married. The size of the town and the length of her career meant that she was, and still is, very well known locally, and most local people will have been taught by her, or have a child who was taught by her, or know someone who was taught by her.

When I was in my late 20s, i.e. more than 20 years after she taught me, I was on the train up to London from my home town, and I overheard a small group of people talking about Miss Pankhurst. Her actual surname is very unusual and I've never met another one, so they were definitely talking about her.

One of the men in the group said, and I quote, "I always thought it was a shame that she was a Miss. She was so lovely with the children, and very pretty when she was young. She deserved to be a Mrs, not a Miss! Not like Mrs Battleaxe**, now she was a right grumpy cow who deserved to be a Miss."

*a pseudonym

**a pseudonym for another teacher at the school who would have been known to many people in the local community

I was shocked to the core by this conversation. It really highlighted how people make value judgements about women based on their perceived marital status.

That was the day I decided to become permanently Ms. I accept that people will still make value judgements about me based on me being a Ms, but it seems like the least worst option.

Mostly because they don't care about titles, their own or ours, that seems pretty much something some women seem to get hung up on.

Why might women get hung up about titles which indicate whether they are married or not?

And no, they aren't going to campaign for different titles to be introduced. Mostly because they don't care about titles, their own or ours,

That's a very sweeping statement. How on earth can you even pretend to know that. 😁

As I said previously, I don't know every man, but I am getting on and have worked in several, male-dominated work places and I can honestly say I've never heard a man make comment on a woman's title. I am sure it does happen, obviously, but I've not heard any. However, I've heard plenty of women comment.

its not really divulging anything, I am "miss" and married with children with my maiden surname. Husband and I rarely wear our rings either.

Good for you.

You might want to preface a statement like that with
" In my experience "

Very easy to not care about titles when your'e a bloke with a one size fits all title rather than a women who has to make the silly choices we do.

Yes, not caring is a mark of male privilege.

"Getting hung up" about it is a mark of being trapped in a system which gives you one of three shitty choices to choose from - but not the choice not to be trapped in that system in the first place - and feeling the need to defend whatever your choice is.

Not criticising you, but "maiden surname" is another phrase that makes my shit itch.

Do the very small number of men who take their wife's surname upon marriage or change their name by deed poll refer to their "little boy name" or their "virgin name"? No, they do not.

I didn't say "In my experience" because I was actually replying to another poster, who had commented on my previous post where I had literally said "Admittedly I don't know every man, but I know quite a few". Which is pretty much a similar to saying "In my experience"

So "In my experience", was superfluous, clearly that's what I meant by saying I didn't know every man. If you are going to pick apart my response to another poster, at least read my original post which would have rendered your criticism unnecessary and somewhat pointless.

Yes, not caring is a mark of male privilege.

I don't care either. Does that mean, as a woman, I must have male privilege? 🤔