To think its time to get rid of personal titles ie. Miss, Mrs, Ms?

[jumpingbean1810]

I was ordering something in a shop the other day and the assistant, in her 20s, was putting my details into their system. She said, I hate asking this, I find it so embarrassing but are you Miss, Ms or Mrs? I replied I'm Miss. I was there with my daughter so in that one exchange I'd divulged I was a single, unmarried parent. It's not information the shop needs for me to order a lamp. And if I was a man, they'd be Mr and none the wiser as to marital status. I know I could say Ms but does any married woman really use Ms? So Ms just ends up sounding like a Miss with issues. It got me thinking why do we need personal titles, how often are they really used anyway? Can they not just be scrapped from form filling? With the increasing desire by the younger generation to not even be defined by gender, identifying women by their marital status feels so outdated. It's international women's day tomorrow and in the spirit of embracing equity, isn't it time we abolished women being defined by marital status?

It is pretty fuckwitted to claim that one's use of a title doesn't affect other women. All use of titles affects other people, because that's how they work.

For a title to mean something, it has to be widely enough accepted that most people will attribute a meaning to it. In the case of Mrs, that only means a married/sometime married woman in the UK because it's widely used as such. If all of a sudden Mrs started being used to denote say an unmarried woman, or a man, once enough people were doing that then it would cease to have the meaning it does now. Equally, if all married women stopped using Mrs tomorrow, again it would stop meaning what it does now. The same rule applies for other titles too. If atheists started calling themselves Reverend, soon enough it wouldn't mean a religious minister like it does now. People who use a title are reliant on others to play along, in order for it to convey what they want it to convey.

You can obviously call yourself whatever you want, but the idea that the title you use exists in a vacuum with no wider impact shows no understanding of how titles work.

Well, that's clearly not true, given that some of those titles are "Dr", "Professor", etc.

The point is that women shouldn't be asked in the first place to identify by their marital status. It's completely outdated, patriarchal nonsense.

You can choose whatever title you want.

Many of my friends and my daughter's friends keep their own surnames when they get married.

And there is always MS for anyone who wants to avoid Miss or Mrs.

It makes you feel sick that some women don't mind if other women use the title Mrs which may or may not indicate they are married? Gosh, that is really sad and I genuinely feel sorry for you that something like that upsets you so badly that you feel ill! My mum still uses Mrs. She is not married and hasn't been for over a decade. She just can't be bothered to change it on things.

There is a solution as has been noted on this thread by many people. Use Ms. It is the female equivalent of Mr and indicates no marital status. Job sorted. Stop trying to dictate what another people should or shouldn't find normal or acceptable. My status and worth in society is not judged by my usage of the title Mrs or the fact that my husband "deigned" to marry me! What a misogynistic viewpoint when you are clearly trying to portray the opposite!

But just so you know, marriage is completely normal, acceptable and part of every day life...

No it isn't. Hooray for difficult women 😄

I'm a married woman with children, and I use Ms with my maiden name. I admit I'm changing my surname to my husband's soon (I actually intended to from the moment we married, but I just never got round to getting all the copies of the marriage certificate sent off so here we are two years later), and then I will go by Mrs NewSurnsme. But I have quite enjoyed being a Ms for the exact reason you've said OP. I'm only 25, and I quite enjoy the idea that strangers think I'm a "miss with issues", as you've put it. Being a 25 year old divorcée seems quite glamorous and mysterious to me 🤣 I think will feel quite boring when I become Mrs HusbandsSurname.

FWIW, I am Mrs My Name. I am not buying into the Victorian fad that says “Mrs” means married, I am reclaiming the preVictorian British convention for titles where “Mrs” means adult woman. “Miss” is for girls who haven’t reached their age of majority/adulthood. All other women, married or not are “Mrs”. This was around literally for centuries before the Victorians linked it to marriage.

I use Ms.

I don't share your authoritarian world view on how others choose to name themselves.

What is damaging to women is a minority insisting their world view is the only right world view. And other women should fall in to line with that.

If women didn't want to use Mrs, the term would fall out of fashion. They do use it. So it hasn't. So however much you think it should be banned, it's not your decision. It's the decision of each and every woman who makes the choice to use whatever title they bloody well please.

That would be fine with me if Mrs was the default title for all women. I don’t care what the word is, as long as it is the same for everyone.

YANBU but I don’t know what the solution would be.

My marriage lasted a week 😂 So I was grateful of Ms and still use it now that I’ve took my maiden name back. But I do find I have to say “no it’s MUZZ” on the phone to explain when they say “miss or mrs?” which does feel awkward.

On the other hand my DM uses Mrs (and her married surname) but she’s been divorced for 30 years, was only married for 2. Personally I think she should change it as it gives the wrong impression, but I think that’s what she’s going for.

Being married is 'damaging' now? Blimey!

You are intentionally ignoring what I said made me feel sick. It's not that women don't mind it. It's that society accepts that is an appropriat way to define women. You don't need to feel sorry for me. I feel sorry for you that you think that your marital status (yes normal acceptable part of life, but still doesn't define a woman or her identity) is the most important thing about you. So much so you have to use it every time you identify yourself. That is a little sad.

Why is there not a male equivalent to indicate marriage or not? Adn as I said Ms still says something about my marital status (or rather my willingness to comment on it). I should be able to say nothing at all, because it's just not imporotant.

I don't care remotely if you nan or mum wants to continue using her title. As I have explained numerous times.

And on this:

My status and worth in society is not judged by my usage of the title Mrs or the fact that my husband "deigned" to marry me!

If it's not important or defining why do you have to give it literally every single time you give your name in any sort of official capacity. That is exactly why it is there.

Yeah marriage is now frowned upon. By a minority of so called feminists.

It’s the path I’ve chosen. Doesn’t have to be for everyone, but there are a fair number of women who are unmarried and use Mrs for the same reason I did. I was a Mrs My Name before I got married and that did not change after I got married. But then I grew up with a lot of the old ways (preChristian even) going on in my village.

I like being a Mrs :)

Funnily enough, yesterday, I had an issue with no title. I was trying to claim Gift Aid for a charity, and the donor gave no title and just initials. Since I could not pinpoint them, I could not claim the Gift Aid.

I think the point is that defining and identifying yourself by whether you are married is damaging. If it was so empowering, men would be doing it (and would always have done it) too.

Damaging in what way?

Do the many women who use Mrs feel this is damaging to them?

As women do have a choice on what they use.

Yes men only have a choice of one title. But if women had wanted this then they too would have moved in a direction of Ms for everyone. They haven't. For lots of reasons that involve individual choice.

I don't frown upon marriage at all. I am married. I just don't think I should be defined by it - or that it needs to be a key part of my identity - just because I am a woman. Especially when men aren't.

Then don't define yourself that way. Call yourself Ms. It's pretty simple.

The other interesting thing is in my progessional life noone uses titles. Men or women. Because it's irrelevant.

So why is it needed and required in personal or administrative matters. If my marital status isn't important at work (because, presumably, my actual job is what matters in that context) why is it in any way relevant in my personal life. The only thing I can see it benefits it denoting my gender which might be relevant in some contexts or for identification, but again why distinguish between Miss, Ms and Mrs then.

i have seen not one convincing argument for why it's of value. Other that people being "proud" of being married.

I’d like to get a phd just to stop this sexist nonsense but also don’t really have the time/energy/money for that

YABU. I love being a Mrs and I’m not going to stop using it because some of you have your knickers in a twist about it.

Eh? Marriage isn’t damaging at all or frowned upon. But defining and labelling yourself or others by marital status is.

Urgh, this is getting repetitive and cirular. And it's pretty boring when you insist on just ignoring half of what I say.

My point is I don't want to comment on my marital status at all. Even if that is to comment that I don't want to comment on it. My marital status is pretty much NEVER relevant in my identifcation (maybe except for if I was tring to get married to someone else). So why do i have to mention it (or expressly note I don't want to say what it is by using Ms) every time I give me name in any official capacity.

And why should I have to confirm with a naming convention that has no benefit and is sexist at all?