To think its time to get rid of personal titles ie. Miss, Mrs, Ms?

[jumpingbean1810]

I was ordering something in a shop the other day and the assistant, in her 20s, was putting my details into their system. She said, I hate asking this, I find it so embarrassing but are you Miss, Ms or Mrs? I replied I'm Miss. I was there with my daughter so in that one exchange I'd divulged I was a single, unmarried parent. It's not information the shop needs for me to order a lamp. And if I was a man, they'd be Mr and none the wiser as to marital status. I know I could say Ms but does any married woman really use Ms? So Ms just ends up sounding like a Miss with issues. It got me thinking why do we need personal titles, how often are they really used anyway? Can they not just be scrapped from form filling? With the increasing desire by the younger generation to not even be defined by gender, identifying women by their marital status feels so outdated. It's international women's day tomorrow and in the spirit of embracing equity, isn't it time we abolished women being defined by marital status?

Think it bothers me more that shops request information just to buy something. It's bloody irritating, just ring me up ffs.

I'm ms. I'd like to do away with Miss and mrs. Are boys still referred to as 'master'?

I've always known Ms as mostly divorced, widowed or older single woman. Especially the first two after being a Mrs. Not that they can't keep the title but usually drop Mrs to become Ms.

That you perceived it as a Miss with issues is odd. Never heard that. I've always known Miss as mostly for little girls and younger women (before marriage). Not that anyone can't continue to be a Miss.

I sort of agree that there's no need for all the different titles for women. Just like men's Mr, we should simply have one despite of status. I say 'Ms.'

Also what would children call their teachers?

Their names of course

I think your mum sounds amazing!

I wish mine had been as good a role model as that but hopefully have broken the cycle with my daughter.

I think I must be a bit of an outlier. I've been divorced for 10 years and still use Mrs. I kept my married surname partly because I wanted the same surname as the kids and secondly because my maiden name is the same as my youngest DCs given name and I thought it would be confusing to change back. I'd spent so long being Mrs I just never changed it. Probably helps that neither ExDH or I have remarried though.

The French recently abolished Mademoiselle so all women are Madame. Probably take a bit of time to percolate la France profund.

As long as you get to keep your choice then

I went from Miss to Dr before I married DH and there I shall stay as it's gender neutral. The only thing I ever clarify is that I'm not a medic.

I do get bloody annoyed though at webforms where there is no option other than Mr Mrs Ms, none of which I will ever voluntarily use. How hard is it for them to put an 'other' box in?

That great. Why do you have to label yourself as a wife to value you those things? The title is literally society telling you that your status, the way you are indentified, the thing that is important about you is the fact your husband chose to marry you.

No wonder we don't have eqaulity. It makes me feel sick.

All these 'changes' come from the same place of resentment and vindictiveness.

I didn't manage to get married so can't be a 'Mrs' so you can't be a 'Mrs' either

I cannot be a woman, so you cannot be called a woman either and will be called a 'person' etc

It's very basic primitive and destructive behaviour really. There's nothing 'progressive' in this at all

Self centered, navel gazing attention seeker

Why does it matter to you what another woman decided to label herself? It's none of your business. You have a choice of names that you can use. You don't have to declare your marriage status. She can call herself what she wants. As can you. If someone else's choices about their own title makes you feel sick, then I suggest you seek help for that.

I don't care what an individual woman chooses to call herself. I mind that her status and worth in society is based on whether someone wanted to marry her, and defining her as such is considered a completely normal and acceptable part of every day life. That is what makes me feel sick.

And I do have to declare my marital status. All the time. There's rarely a form I fill in that doesn't ask for my title. I am forced to define myself by that too. I know I can (and do) use Ms, but again it's about my marital status.

Because it affects and damages other women. It affects and damages society.

Well you clearly do care if a woman calling herself mrs make you feel sick. She's defining herself as someone who is married. Not the other way round. Because if she didn't want to define herself to society as being married, she would use Ms. Ms is not about your marital status. It's neutral. You cant tell if someone is married or not from Ms.

I completely agree. Who cares? I always just pick Mr even though I'm a woman as it's the first one on the list. Sometimes I pick doctor if I'm feeling important. It makes no difference.

@JeimeHonfUcoim
*(a) you can't always specify your title when booking plane tickets - last ones I booked only had the option of Mr, Miss or Mrs so a medical doctor would be just as anonymous as a plumber on a flight

(b) the top consultant doctors go back to being Mr/Ms and regard it as an insult if you address them as Doctor as that's giving them a lower status.*

(a) - irrelevant to my point, as on my flight clearly 2 passengers had booked themselves as Dr Xxx so it’s possible in this circumstance.

(b) - I know, as my friend is a top consultant. Also, I’m not daft. PS it’s not actually considered an insult by most consultants, at least not the ones I know.

it's the ignorance of the people who think that doctor means medic that's the problem here, not the perfectly reasonable behaviour of using a title that has been legitimately earned

It’s not ignorance - a person with a PhD and a medical doctor are both referred to as Dr. Now, imagine its 3am, you are at 38000ft and the nearest hospital you would want to end up in is about 4hrs flying time away. There are places closer, but they are in struggling countries that may pose a risk to you and all of your other passengers if you land there, but if you don’t land there your sick passenger might die. You have a medic on the phone who advises you to see if you can find a medic among your other passengers. You scan down the passenger list and find 2 with the title Dr. What do you do?

I’m not saying that it’s not perfectly reasonable to use a title you’ve earned. I’m saying it is perfectly reasonable to go and ask those people who call themselves Dr if they are a medical doctor because someone is very sick and needs urgent help.

No it doesn't. You call yourself what you please. Other woman can do the same.

No. I don't. As I already explained once (and it's odd that you have just ignored what I wrote to insist on makign the same point). It is the title convention itself that makes me feel sick. That our worth and definition as women is based on men and how they relate to us.

Ms is about marital status. It's about declaring you don't want to declare it. I don't have to evrey time I say my name give me occupation. Or my sexual orientation. Or my salary. Or whether I have children. Or whether I eat meat. Or whether I drive a car. Or whether I watch easterenders. Which is right, because those thngs don't define me in society. But apparently it is a defining and crucial part of my indentify and role in society to declare whether a man chose to marry me or actively have to state I don't want to share that.

Buying into a sexist convention such as this does damage other women.

Can you just clarify who is being damaged?

It does. Because your decision to use Mrs or Miss affects how Ms is used and judged. It makes it seem that Mrs/Miss and being marked and validated by marital status is a valid, normal choice, when it’s an outdated, misogynistic, demeaning choice which a civilised society should ban so we can all progress.

I'm amazed at the comments that a Ms has issues or denotes a divorced woman. Have I stepped back in time 30 years?

For me, Ms is the default and the female equivalent of Mr.

There definitely are some women who see being a Mrs as some sort of achievement. I'm married but kept my own name, a Mrs title feels completely alien to me.

I had one friend who thought I was a total weirdo for keeping my own name. This was recently and she's only in her early 30s. It's like she can't actually believe I've made that decision, and she has sent me cards addressed to Mrs Husband's Name even though she knows I've kept my name.

She's very quickly turning into an ex friend, it's so disrespectful and I can't believe a young person today can have such an attitude.

YABU.
We need titles so that you can see whether a person is a man or a woman to help prevent identity theft.

Especially with so many common gender neutral names- ie Taylor Smith- is this a man or woman?

A bearded bloke shows up and takes your lamp…

As for marital status who can tell these days? I know many married women who go by Miss, and unmarried women who go by Mrs for various reasons.