Is threatening illegal immigrants going to stop them coming?

[LadyGAgain]

Channel migrants face lifetime ban on returning to UK www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64848101

I read this with horror. I know we are a tiny island with limited resources but this legislation seems callous and cruel. These people are risking their very existence getting on these small boats and to then be locked up and shipped off again to who knows where. Plus the cost to us as tax payers. AIBU to suggest that I don't have a solution but this one seems extreme.

Sounds like you think that's a shame.

We also need safe routes. And an understanding that we take far fewer than a lot of countries.

It's perspective innit. We (Sweden) have voted in a far right government by Swedish standards. By UK standards it's less right wing than Jeremy Corbyn.

What we need is better systems, a relentless focus on the criminal gangs

That is exactly what we are getting. A relentless focus on their profits that can be passed back to the lawmakers that enable them. All the time cheered in by thick of Tonbridge Wells who believes that making something illegal more illegal is somehow a solution to people doing illegal things.

Well maybe a better policy for protecting their lives would be to establish safe routes for people to claim asylum in the UK. Another might be to start routing out the traffickers. This will require some international co-operation of course, but we could make a start by arresting the ones that live here in the UK.

I thought that asylum seekers were meant to seek asylum in the first safe country they came to - which makes boats of people setting off from France seem like a mockery of the system?

Surely, to solve the issue, we need to understand why people are doing it - the majority of those coming in via boat must come from France. What makes England so much more attractive? People are risking their lives to get here, specifically, rather than seeking help in the first safe place they can.

I can't see that upping the stakes is going to help but nor do I think that we should accept anyone who wants to come here. We need a system that looks at the reasons and reforms the processes from there.

luckylavendar - But the size of the country and population has to be taken into consideration. In the last 30 years Germany's population has increased by 4.6 million, France by 9.86 million and the UK by 10.26 million. Germany is 2.3 times the size of UK and France 1.5.

You thought wrong. The 1951 Refugee Convention states that they can seek asylum in ANY safe country.

We need lots of different skill sets. Fruit pickers, care home workers, staff in hospitality etc. And we have an ageing population, so we're shooting ourselves in the foot for the Daily Mail.

We don't?

Have you read the legislation on protests or strikes?

Fladdermus - Which country are you living in, or can we assume that your earlier posts were made up.

@Kai965 could you quote the part of international law that says that asylum seekers need to seek asylum in the first safe country they enter?

You may be thinking of the EU's Dublin Convention, which did for a while have some provisions in this area, but for some reason those rules don't apply to the UK anymore.

@Moonicorn
The fact is the men have been cowardly and value the lives of women and children less than their own.

This was the consensus my immigrant DH heard from the other legal immigrants while discussing the boat crossings whilst waiting to take their Life in the U.K. Test and then waiting to be told if they passed or failed it. Quite a few Syrians and Afghans were present.

Sorry, I don’t know what point you’re trying to make here.

Germany's population is about 83million, the UK's is about 67million. I am not sure that is 2.3 times bigger?

Could we go back to the discussion about how much empty space there is in Norway that could be used for housing?

You are way outdated, the Dublin Convention of 1990 made it the rule for over thirty years….that an asylum seeker must apply in first EU country they come to and cannot restart the process elsewhere. It no longer applies to the U.K. due to Brexit and it’s currently been made obsolete by newer EU regulations. But the poster wasn’t wrong, this was the rule in effect most recently.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation

I agree with this.

The main problem is that most of those who manage to arrive here are utterly ignorant of the rules.

The new laws won't stop them trying to cross.

IF only there was a way of claiming asylum, before trying to get here.

Oh wait. That's prevented as well....

@jgw1
You know they’re referring to the land mass of the country which is pertinent because high population density means a country is either over populated or closer to it than other countries. Those that are already densely populated cannot take in as many immigrants as those with plenty of room to grow. That’s the whole reason why Malta has taken in less than 100 refugees. They are the most densely populated country in Europe. It’s why they refuse any boats from Africa approaching their coastline and escort them towards Italy or Sicily.

To be fair most of Norway is uninhabitable. And I don’t want them clearing those beautiful forests to throw up cheap housing. We all benefit from large forested areas worldwide.

But Norway is so sparsly populated one could lose millions of people in those forests, give them an axe and tell them to get on with it.

So instead we build over arable land here that is needed to grow food, and pave over what’s left of our national forests, driving extinct our already endangered wildlife because you don’t want a bit of Norways forests to be cleared for housing? To recap Norway has a land mass double the size of the U.K. with a smaller population than half the city of London. Their population density is 14 people per km2 compared to our 265 people per km2.

No I'm not. It's my day job. The overriding law on refugees is the 1951 Refugee Convention. It was in 1951. It still is today. Internal rules within a political union do not supercede internationally agreed law any more than batshit laws suggested by far right British governments do.

The level of delusion is staggering on here. Most of the people coming on boats are healthy young men in designer trainers looking to boost their finances. They are generally not those most vulnerable!

The language Braverman's using today makes this feel very much like a last roll of the dice for the tories. They know they have nothing left. Well, nothing left that would countenance using.