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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this woman should not be put in prison?

960 replies

Nooyoiknooyoik · 02/03/2023 15:31

Bizarre and very unfair Link

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
TheCatWithGreenEyes · 02/03/2023 19:50

@NoBoatsOnSunday

She didn't kill her. She shouted at her. It was an accident.

Hopefully she will be out soon. Total waste of public money.

NoBoatsOnSunday · 02/03/2023 19:52

TheCatWithGreenEyes · 02/03/2023 19:46

@Dominoeffecter

I don't really care she shouldn't be on the pavement. She could have caused injury to the other lady or someone else. Cyclists belong on the roads.

3 years in jail is ridiculous. All she did was shout at her. If she pushed her yeah she would most definitely deserve that and more

She was entitled to be on the pavement. It was a shared path.

And it does look a LOT like a push.

Nooyoiknooyoik · 02/03/2023 19:55

NoBoatsOnSunday · 02/03/2023 19:43

Apparently she has no family or friends and it looks like she’ll lose her home and possessions.

That helps a bit, but it’s still seems like a pitifully light sentence.

How unpleasant you sound.

OP posts:
NoBoatsOnSunday · 02/03/2023 19:55

TheCatWithGreenEyes · 02/03/2023 19:50

@NoBoatsOnSunday

She didn't kill her. She shouted at her. It was an accident.

Hopefully she will be out soon. Total waste of public money.

She was criminally responsible for the cyclist’s death and I’d think anyone with a passing familiarity of the law surrounding manslaughter would see that.

Luckily, the police, judge and jury seem to have been far more clued in that you.

lljkk · 02/03/2023 19:56

Even if cyclist "shouldn't be there", that wouldn't make it ok to then cause cyclists death.

aSofaNearYou · 02/03/2023 19:56

TheCatWithGreenEyes · 02/03/2023 19:50

@NoBoatsOnSunday

She didn't kill her. She shouted at her. It was an accident.

Hopefully she will be out soon. Total waste of public money.

She at the very least lunged towards her and caused her to lose her balance, she was responsible.

NoBoatsOnSunday · 02/03/2023 19:59

Nooyoiknooyoik · 02/03/2023 19:55

How unpleasant you sound.

Luckily, given your vile OP, I don’t put any stock whatsoever in your sense of judgment.

My sympathy is for the woman who was killed, and for her family.

Yours is for the angry woman who aggressively swore and gestured at a cyclist and (it appears) pushed her into the road, killing her, before sauntering off to the shops.

Familyiness · 02/03/2023 20:01

@NoBoatsOnSunday it certainly looks to me like contact was made, she deliberately walked over to her side. Shame there isn't another angle, not a very good angle. The judge obviously must have thought so too, no need for that aggression. The path was 2.4 meters so unless they are both over a meter wide, they could have passed easily, if she had stayed on her side. Deliberate act of aggression, even if she didn't push her, which I think she did.
She will make a lovely wife inside though

TheCatWithGreenEyes · 02/03/2023 20:01

@aSofaNearYou
I'm sure she expected the cyclist to hit her. Looks like she was travelling at speed.

Dominoeffecter · 02/03/2023 20:02

Nooyoiknooyoik · 02/03/2023 19:55

How unpleasant you sound.

You are literally blaming someone for their own death and you have the audacity to say someone else sounds unpleasant, you are deluded.

iklboo · 02/03/2023 20:05

'I watched the footage' vs 'I was a member of the jury who was shown and heard all the evidence, questioning etc'

I wonder which one I prefer?

NoBoatsOnSunday · 02/03/2023 20:07

TheCatWithGreenEyes · 02/03/2023 20:01

@aSofaNearYou
I'm sure she expected the cyclist to hit her. Looks like she was travelling at speed.

She could see the cyclist coming from some distance away. The path is 2.5 metres wide, easily enough space for both. If she was truly worried that the cyclist might hit her, why march directly up to the cyclist to violently confront her, instead of just leaving adequate space?

dawngreen · 02/03/2023 20:09

@HufflePuffllePuff Exactly.
I still don't see any shoving taking place. @HeavenIsAHalfpipe can you screen shot the alleged shove and post it here?

BrigitteBond · 02/03/2023 20:09

iklboo · 02/03/2023 20:05

'I watched the footage' vs 'I was a member of the jury who was shown and heard all the evidence, questioning etc'

I wonder which one I prefer?

The police, the CPS, the judge and the jury, who've seen all the evidence, don't seem to believe the cyclist was pushed.

Familyiness · 02/03/2023 20:09

Honestly the lack of intelligent life here is astounding!!
I'm not the most intelligent person, far from it. But I have a basic knowledge of what manslaughter means.
So your actions have caused someone to lose their life, you may not have intended to kill said person, but your actions still caused it, hence manslaughter!! It's really not a hard concept.
If I run my car into someone on the road, who shouldn't have been there, ie didn't use the crossing, but hit them anyway. Does that mean I can say it wasn't my fault as they shouldn't have been there. No, it doesn't matter, if they should have been there, if your actions caused their death then you are guilty as charged.
Actions have consequences.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 02/03/2023 20:10

I missed her blaming it on being partially sighted. I’m also partially sighted (only have limited central vision in one eye) and although I am probably more likely to be run over by a cyclist as I can’t get out of way as I can’t see them i am pretty disgusted she is using this as an excuse.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 02/03/2023 20:11

Tbf though I also walk into the large metal bollards

BertaHoon · 02/03/2023 20:12

She forced an elderly lady who had every right to be on that pathway in to the path of an incoming car.

She killed her.

dawngreen · 02/03/2023 20:12

Where exactly do's it say that @Tomorrowillbeachicken ?

WombsofWimbledon · 02/03/2023 20:14

Ponderingwindow · 02/03/2023 16:01

I just watched the footage.

if a cyclist is approaching a pedestrian on a shared pavement they are supposed to slow down or stop as necessary, not pass close enough to them that an arm being moved or the pedestrian not moving out of the way could cause an accident. You are supposed to assume the pedestrian might panic and step into your path not even just hold still. If you aren’t accounting for that, you are riding too fast and passing too close.

I agree with this somewhat. It's a tragic scenario but I can have a little sympathy for the pedestrian here based on what I've seen with my own mother. She's actually a really kind person but in advancing years has become unsteady on her feet and prone to falls. When cyclists come towards, or past from behind, she worries / panics that they will hit her or that she will lose her balance in them passing her at speed. I've heard her shout at somebody for doing that before, it comes from fear and frustration.

It sounds unreasonable until it's you in that situation. Yes, my mum would be heartbroken if she 'caused' this scenario and I can't imagine leaving the scene before the emergency responders were there, but having said that, I can understand the lead up to the incident.

BertaHoon · 02/03/2023 20:14

Familyiness · 02/03/2023 20:09

Honestly the lack of intelligent life here is astounding!!
I'm not the most intelligent person, far from it. But I have a basic knowledge of what manslaughter means.
So your actions have caused someone to lose their life, you may not have intended to kill said person, but your actions still caused it, hence manslaughter!! It's really not a hard concept.
If I run my car into someone on the road, who shouldn't have been there, ie didn't use the crossing, but hit them anyway. Does that mean I can say it wasn't my fault as they shouldn't have been there. No, it doesn't matter, if they should have been there, if your actions caused their death then you are guilty as charged.
Actions have consequences.

This.

Hence why the man who drove in to her is not being charged.

No. She killed her - manslaughter.

NoBoatsOnSunday · 02/03/2023 20:15

BrigitteBond · 02/03/2023 20:09

The police, the CPS, the judge and the jury, who've seen all the evidence, don't seem to believe the cyclist was pushed.

We don’t know that, we just know that the police opted to charge her on the basis that she was acting aggressively towards the cyclist, likely because the swearing and gesticulating was unequivocal on the video and sufficient for a conviction.

The video appears to show a push but I don’t think anyone can unequivocally say there was one, and ultimately it might not have affected the outcome so it makes sense for the police to proceed on the indisputable facts.

sussexman · 02/03/2023 20:17

NoBoatsOnSunday · 02/03/2023 19:55

She was criminally responsible for the cyclist’s death and I’d think anyone with a passing familiarity of the law surrounding manslaughter would see that.

Luckily, the police, judge and jury seem to have been far more clued in that you.

Indeed, almost as if they'd heard the evidence rather than read the news reports!

I can guarantee MN would have had no sympathy for a young man who behaved like that towards an elderly woman.

sussexman · 02/03/2023 20:20

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 02/03/2023 20:10

I missed her blaming it on being partially sighted. I’m also partially sighted (only have limited central vision in one eye) and although I am probably more likely to be run over by a cyclist as I can’t get out of way as I can’t see them i am pretty disgusted she is using this as an excuse.

She'd have to be more than partially sighted to have ignored the car immediately running her over and instead just sauntering off to do her groceries.

IrisAtwood · 02/03/2023 20:20

Of course she should be in prison. She shouted and lunged at her. She didn’t intend to kill her, but caused her death. Hence a manslaughter conviction.

To those saying that it is a waste of money: crimes need to be dealt with and there is also the effect of perhaps others stopping to think before behaving in similar ways.

There are very few situations in which shouting and lunging at another person is justified.

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