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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Wow just wow. AIBU to think MH is a complete tw*t

423 replies

Moonshine86 · 01/03/2023 21:10

Words fail me

Wow just wow. AIBU to think MH is a complete tw*t
OP posts:
Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:26

Wizzbangfizz · 02/03/2023 09:21

This is bringing back happy memories of the mask hysteria on here. I wore one when legally required to do so but I’ll never wear one again. I can agree that if we were all wearing the surgical grade masks it may have made a smidgen of difference but I do not for a second buy that the glittery fashion masks and the paper thin blue ones most people donned multiple times made a scrap of difference. Again look at the cases in Scotland.

The problem with the Scotland comparison is that I’m not sure they implemented it properly.

Given that the virus spreads on water/liquid droplets, not hanging in the air, it makes sense that a mask would catch some of that and stop a bit of the spread.

Any sensible scientist will tell you that masks with other measures will help.

Masks have become a toxic issue - but countries who have managed and dealt with SARS wear masks!

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 02/03/2023 09:27

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:22

I agree actually.

The restrictions were absolutely absurd in some cases (one hour exercise rule for example) and we could have achieved the same thing by other means.

But, as I said, scepticism around public health became muddied by cranks. And that was because it was clear that this government just didn’t know what it was doing.

Covid -19 is a similar virus to SARS and countries have dealt with SARS before. But for some inane reason, our government didn’t ask other governments for sensible advice on precautions.

We could have invested in testing - instead of throwing money at consultants - they could have used existing frameworks.

We could have invested in ventilation which would have kept schools open, kept hospital infection rates down etc.

And we could have had a sensible discussion about masks - but instead we’ve had so much nonsense about it (masks in schools was stupid as they didn’t wear them all the time!).

I do worry for our next pandemic. People won’t listen to government even if they’re coming out with sensible measures, because they will remember the shower of this government.

Agreed.

Cornettoninja · 02/03/2023 09:28

DixitDomino · 02/03/2023 09:14

We all vent privately. I'd be mortified if my Whatsapps were published (edited) for the nation to dissect. We all vent by exaggerating and saying slightly outrageous things to those we trust. It's actually therapeutic. We don't mean them. It's a way of puncturing the situation.
Throw stones if you've never done similar about about a work situation/ colleague/ relationship/ in anger/ frustration.
Can't stand Hancock or Williamson- but this holier than thou criticism is ridiculous hypocrisy.

Hmm…

yes but we all also run the risk of having to own our words should others get wind of them. Privacy doesn’t trump content and intent.

I don’t really see the difference in your ‘holier-than-thou’ reaction to everyone else’s ‘holier-than-thou’ reactions tbh. You’ve just moved your aim.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 02/03/2023 09:34

Regarding the masks in schools issue, I think the point to take is that even if you support that policy, its a bad thing that it was implemented essentially because the government were worried about how they'd look compared to Sturgeon, and when their own Chief Medical Officer didn't think there were strong scientific reasons to do it.

It's fine to disagree with Chris Whitty's scientific assessment. But however you slice it, this was bad governance.

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:36

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 02/03/2023 09:34

Regarding the masks in schools issue, I think the point to take is that even if you support that policy, its a bad thing that it was implemented essentially because the government were worried about how they'd look compared to Sturgeon, and when their own Chief Medical Officer didn't think there were strong scientific reasons to do it.

It's fine to disagree with Chris Whitty's scientific assessment. But however you slice it, this was bad governance.

Scotland were following the WHO’s advice but did it badly because of how they implemented it. That’s what the CMO was getting at (well that’s how I read it). And poor advice from the CMO “it’s not worth the argument”?? Surely she should have checked the WHO advice, called Scotland out for not implementing it properly and suggest how to do it properly.

Masks in a school setting are a bit all or nothing.

But I agree - bad governance.

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:37

*he not she.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 02/03/2023 09:43

A similar point also applies to George Osborne having allowed Hancock to ratchet up demand for testing through content in the Evening Standard. There's a valid argument that people testing more was a good thing, but the fact that this could happen how it did shows that something had gone very wrong.

QuitsAmidCrisis · 02/03/2023 09:48

I would never vote Tory. I support the teachers’ strike fully.

But I am still disappointed about how some unions and teachers acted during the pandemic. Esp when schools partially opened in June 2020. The squeals of indignation from the NEU and from some teachers was disgusting. The way they carried on was like they were been sent into a slaughter house. They spoke about kids disgracefully, ‘snotty germ-ridden bags of infection’ etc. They whined about no PPE.

Whilst many other people had worked throughout without it. Staff on buses and trains (often poor ethnic minorities at higher risk). I was a senior nhs clinician working on a ward throughout. Initially no PPE at all. And then we received the same paper masks everyone was buying on eBay. That was it. Nothing more. No FFP masks. I was scared at the start but never complained and said I shouldn’t work. My patients needed me. Like kids needed teachers. Face to face.

In June 2020, the internet was flooded with panicky teachers. I saw one memorable person say, ‘my mum is a teacher. She has emailed her head refusing to go in as she is overweight’ 🤯 And other such pathetic posts.

There were decent teachers though. Who wanted to teach. Who wanted all kids back. Who defected from the NEU as they were embarrassed by their stance. I am trying to remember the ‘good ones’. But the unions did behave appallingly and did the profession a disservice; there is no doubt. I had always respected the teaching profession pre-pandemic.

And I will always in the end defend teachers against creepy self-serving tories like Matt Hancock. Every time.

Buzzinwithbez · 02/03/2023 09:50

Scope creep.
Masks already worn by teens in shops and public transport so its no big deal having them wear them in corridors even though it's pointless. Easy decision to make.
All without giving a thought to the adults having to enforce this, the cost of supplying masks to children who didn't have them, the kids who couldn't wear them, the kids who really struggled with them but wanted to fit in and avoid bullying and so on.

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:51

QuitsAmidCrisis · 02/03/2023 09:48

I would never vote Tory. I support the teachers’ strike fully.

But I am still disappointed about how some unions and teachers acted during the pandemic. Esp when schools partially opened in June 2020. The squeals of indignation from the NEU and from some teachers was disgusting. The way they carried on was like they were been sent into a slaughter house. They spoke about kids disgracefully, ‘snotty germ-ridden bags of infection’ etc. They whined about no PPE.

Whilst many other people had worked throughout without it. Staff on buses and trains (often poor ethnic minorities at higher risk). I was a senior nhs clinician working on a ward throughout. Initially no PPE at all. And then we received the same paper masks everyone was buying on eBay. That was it. Nothing more. No FFP masks. I was scared at the start but never complained and said I shouldn’t work. My patients needed me. Like kids needed teachers. Face to face.

In June 2020, the internet was flooded with panicky teachers. I saw one memorable person say, ‘my mum is a teacher. She has emailed her head refusing to go in as she is overweight’ 🤯 And other such pathetic posts.

There were decent teachers though. Who wanted to teach. Who wanted all kids back. Who defected from the NEU as they were embarrassed by their stance. I am trying to remember the ‘good ones’. But the unions did behave appallingly and did the profession a disservice; there is no doubt. I had always respected the teaching profession pre-pandemic.

And I will always in the end defend teachers against creepy self-serving tories like Matt Hancock. Every time.

I heard social care worker and other workers complain about the lack of PPE and quite right to!

The NEU asked for public health measures. Do you expect them to ask for all workers? They’re there to represent teachers.

noblegiraffe · 02/03/2023 09:51

I was scared at the start but never complained

You were scared, you didn't have PPE and you think that not complaining about not having basic safety equipment makes you more virtuous than those who did?

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:52

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 02/03/2023 09:43

A similar point also applies to George Osborne having allowed Hancock to ratchet up demand for testing through content in the Evening Standard. There's a valid argument that people testing more was a good thing, but the fact that this could happen how it did shows that something had gone very wrong.

I know! That was shocking. His target was a stupid target.

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:53

noblegiraffe · 02/03/2023 09:51

I was scared at the start but never complained

You were scared, you didn't have PPE and you think that not complaining about not having basic safety equipment makes you more virtuous than those who did?

Indeed!
I don’t know why lying back and taking it is seen as a good thing 😒🤨

QuitsAmidCrisis · 02/03/2023 09:53

Twiglets1 · 02/03/2023 07:19

So much of this debate is about teachers and whether they worked in schools or not during lockdown. In reality, in the large secondary school I worked at, practically all the teachers worked from home running online lessons. Face to face learning was staffed almost exclusively by Teaching Assistants, without any PPE or screens between them and the vulnerable children they worked with.
It was a strange aspect of lockdown that the people most at risk of physical harm were generally the lowest paid, including supermarket staff, care home workers, nurses & healthcare assistants, delivery drivers etc

’It was a strange aspect of lockdown that the people most at risk of physical harm were generally the lowest paid, including supermarket staff, care home workers, nurses & healthcare assistants, delivery drivers etc‘

Yep. Often those without the loudest voices or sharpest elbows. Apart from NHS staff, most workers you have listed, were forgotten about.

SchoolTripDrama · 02/03/2023 09:53

Can I just point out that

A - That's not even WhatsApp Font and bears a striking resemblance to the font of a well known message-faking app I may or may not have used in the past....

&

B - It is so so very easy to fake WhatsApp messages, even without an app.

MarshaBradyo · 02/03/2023 09:54

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 02/03/2023 09:34

Regarding the masks in schools issue, I think the point to take is that even if you support that policy, its a bad thing that it was implemented essentially because the government were worried about how they'd look compared to Sturgeon, and when their own Chief Medical Officer didn't think there were strong scientific reasons to do it.

It's fine to disagree with Chris Whitty's scientific assessment. But however you slice it, this was bad governance.

I thought it a bad move but demand was there and some of it was just meeting what people demanded.

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:55

SchoolTripDrama · 02/03/2023 09:53

Can I just point out that

A - That's not even WhatsApp Font and bears a striking resemblance to the font of a well known message-faking app I may or may not have used in the past....

&

B - It is so so very easy to fake WhatsApp messages, even without an app.

Matt Hancock isn’t denying it. And they may have downloaded the messages into a different format.

QuitsAmidCrisis · 02/03/2023 09:55

IkBenDeMol · 02/03/2023 07:47

The unions are led by the shoutiest, most militant teachers though, it's the nature of the beast. Just like the bloke who runs the RMT is the shoutiest, most militant train driver.

This is true. Often the ones who shout the loudest do not represent the quiet majority. I see it a lot in different areas.

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:56

QuitsAmidCrisis · 02/03/2023 09:55

This is true. Often the ones who shout the loudest do not represent the quiet majority. I see it a lot in different areas.

The problem is people assuming they know what the quiet majority think.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 02/03/2023 09:59

Buzzinwithbez · 02/03/2023 09:50

Scope creep.
Masks already worn by teens in shops and public transport so its no big deal having them wear them in corridors even though it's pointless. Easy decision to make.
All without giving a thought to the adults having to enforce this, the cost of supplying masks to children who didn't have them, the kids who couldn't wear them, the kids who really struggled with them but wanted to fit in and avoid bullying and so on.

Yes, as with so many of the measures that were taken there's no indication that an assessment of the positives v negatives was ever made.

Twiglets1 · 02/03/2023 10:00

QuitsAmidCrisis · 02/03/2023 09:53

’It was a strange aspect of lockdown that the people most at risk of physical harm were generally the lowest paid, including supermarket staff, care home workers, nurses & healthcare assistants, delivery drivers etc‘

Yep. Often those without the loudest voices or sharpest elbows. Apart from NHS staff, most workers you have listed, were forgotten about.

I agree.
I support the teachers strike and know they worked hard during lockdown on online lessons (talking about secondary teachers as I believe primary teachers were in the physical classroom more). But they did not face the same health risks as TAs. Even when schools fully reopened teachers were told to stay within a box drawn around their desks for safety reasons. Whereas TAs were expected to sit amongst the pupils. And teachers would ask them to hand out/collect work because they didn’t want to get that close to pupils themselves 🤔

QuitsAmidCrisis · 02/03/2023 10:03

noblegiraffe · 02/03/2023 09:51

I was scared at the start but never complained

You were scared, you didn't have PPE and you think that not complaining about not having basic safety equipment makes you more virtuous than those who did?

I never said that I would not go into work. Which is what I saw teachers clearly saying.

QuitsAmidCrisis · 02/03/2023 10:05

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:53

Indeed!
I don’t know why lying back and taking it is seen as a good thing 😒🤨

Seeing patients on the wards and not whining and hiding at home was a good thing for my patients.

I found it odd that so many teachers talked only about their own safety and not the unseen kids at home. That is a fact.

QuitsAmidCrisis · 02/03/2023 10:06

Twiglets1 · 02/03/2023 10:00

I agree.
I support the teachers strike and know they worked hard during lockdown on online lessons (talking about secondary teachers as I believe primary teachers were in the physical classroom more). But they did not face the same health risks as TAs. Even when schools fully reopened teachers were told to stay within a box drawn around their desks for safety reasons. Whereas TAs were expected to sit amongst the pupils. And teachers would ask them to hand out/collect work because they didn’t want to get that close to pupils themselves 🤔

What a disgrace.

Wizzbangfizz · 02/03/2023 10:13

Totally agree with your post @QuitsAmidCrisis regarding the behaviour and attitudes of some teachers when so many other professions had to get on with it. For those caring about the race to the bottom of not investing in schools it seems a bit rich to complain when they wanted them shut and restricted for so long

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