Page 12 | Wow just wow. AIBU to think MH is a complete tw*t

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 08:50

MisschiefMaker · 02/03/2023 08:46

@borntobequiet You said it was not wealth generating. It is wealth generating - it’s an investment in the future. The cost of education today is funded by the wealth generated by education in the (not too far distant) past. People who left school less than ten years ago now work and pay taxes that fund schools. Your post was meant to belittle teachers and their reasonable requirement for adequate compensation for the increasingly difficult job they do.
You should be aware that ad hominem attacks don’t strengthen your argument, either.

Unfortunately this isn't correct. Our whole economy is a house of cards built on cheap debt thanks to central banks keeping interest rates down for decades.

It doesn't belittle teachers to say it's not a wealth generating industry. It's like medicine, right, we need a healthy work force but the NHS is still a cost that needs to be paid for by other people. That's fine - we need doctors and teachers but you guys don't operate in a vacuum. When everything else is going to shit, teaching will go to shit too. The issue that you're seeing people have is that the unions were fine with everything else going wrong and somehow expected themselves to be shielded from it.

Debt is not inherently bad. No country would ever run its economy without debt. We need a sensible education problem which explains how an economy actually works and the different elements otherwise we get narrow minded ill informed views which think that “wealth” in narrow economic terms = money in the bank.

Wizzbangfizz · 02/03/2023 08:50

And for the crowing about the tories take a look at wales and Scotland - sterling eh? One of the many reasons I’m moving overseas.

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 08:51

Wizzbangfizz · 02/03/2023 08:50

And for the crowing about the tories take a look at wales and Scotland - sterling eh? One of the many reasons I’m moving overseas.

They’re not independent and are blind by the politics of Westminster. Any fool knows that.

borntobequiet · 02/03/2023 08:54

Wizzbangfizz · 02/03/2023 08:30

@borntobequiet no I think it exists - just like the many many other covid type viruses that exist which are for the overwhelming majority a mild respiratory illness. Do I think that the destruction of our economy, unlimited cash for furlough, schools shutting at the expense of millions of kids wellbeing and education, and one of the many consequences being that we now live in a society where more people take out than put in was a price worth paying because people got used to sitting on their arses doing fuck all well no I don’t.

But it’s not just one of those many other respiratory viruses, is it? It’s killed millions and left many others long term disabled. The restrictions were probably overdone in some cases (for example, with regard to outdoor exercise) and not sufficient in others (suitable ventilation in schools), but that doesn’t mean that they were unnecessary or wrong overall.

Vegrocks · 02/03/2023 08:55

twitterexile · 02/03/2023 08:26

Yes usually everyone on MN hates teachers!

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and every mumsnet teacher seems to hate their job and seem to work 10000 hours a week for 3pan hour! 😂

noblegiraffe · 02/03/2023 08:56

When everything else is going to shit, teaching will go to shit too.

Someone who thinks that austerity 'didn't go far enough' isn't clear why, after over a decade of extreme underinvestment, teaching is 'going to shit'?

borntobequiet · 02/03/2023 08:58

MisschiefMaker · 02/03/2023 08:46

@borntobequiet You said it was not wealth generating. It is wealth generating - it’s an investment in the future. The cost of education today is funded by the wealth generated by education in the (not too far distant) past. People who left school less than ten years ago now work and pay taxes that fund schools. Your post was meant to belittle teachers and their reasonable requirement for adequate compensation for the increasingly difficult job they do.
You should be aware that ad hominem attacks don’t strengthen your argument, either.

Unfortunately this isn't correct. Our whole economy is a house of cards built on cheap debt thanks to central banks keeping interest rates down for decades.

It doesn't belittle teachers to say it's not a wealth generating industry. It's like medicine, right, we need a healthy work force but the NHS is still a cost that needs to be paid for by other people. That's fine - we need doctors and teachers but you guys don't operate in a vacuum. When everything else is going to shit, teaching will go to shit too. The issue that you're seeing people have is that the unions were fine with everything else going wrong and somehow expected themselves to be shielded from it.

I said that your post was intended to belittle teachers, which it clearly was, especially the last part.

General observations about the state of the economy are irrelevant.

SugarRushCrush · 02/03/2023 09:00

JanglyBeads · 01/03/2023 21:28

What trying to protect their members and society at large from a potentially serious / fatal disease?

That many other industries who worked with the public managed to survive?

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:00

MarshaBradyo · 02/03/2023 08:49

There were a few involved but yes he could have led it I’m not sure. It was hugely effective. Turns out we are very good at those types of campaigns and impact on behaviour.

I thought at the time the public sector are reacting to it more but they’ll be hit by lower funds later. You couldn’t say it though without backlash.

Most private sectors demanded to be re opened, usually unsuccessfully.

Our growth now is higher than expected but the thing that drags it back is the strikes.

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How do the strikes drag it back? Please do prove that.

Wizzbangfizz · 02/03/2023 09:00

@borntobequiet kids had to wear masks in schools because Westminster didn’t want a row with Nicola sturgeon. There were different restrictions in the different countries. Post viral fatigue syndrome has been around forever and I’d deeply question the many cases of “long covid”.

MisschiefMaker · 02/03/2023 09:01

noblegiraffe · 02/03/2023 08:56

When everything else is going to shit, teaching will go to shit too.

Someone who thinks that austerity 'didn't go far enough' isn't clear why, after over a decade of extreme underinvestment, teaching is 'going to shit'?

What? My point was that the unions didn't want teachers to go back to schools even though lockdown was destroying the economy, so I have little sympathy for them now when they complain the schools don't have enough money because it's the economy that funds the schools (or, more realistically debt, which is why we're seeing so much panic at the prospect of higher interest rates).

MisschiefMaker · 02/03/2023 09:03

General observations about the state of the economy are irrelevant.

If it's irrelevant stop complaining about needing funding and fund yourself

I think you'll find it's not possible and that actually you don't operate in a vacuum at all.

SugarRushCrush · 02/03/2023 09:04

Xol · 01/03/2023 22:02

Wow. Teachers at the school where I'm a governor worked their butts off producing online materials, teaching online, organising and marking homework, keeping in touch with families, and working with the children who were going into school. Meanwhile Hancock was busy snogging his mistress, failing to protect care homes, making money for himself and his mates, and slagging off those teachers. What a total arsehole.

Isn't that their job? It's what they're paid to do. My teacher friend said she did one hour's work a day at home and loved it. I meanwhile had to drive into work an hour earlier than usual as couldn't get the tube due to Covid and then work 10 hours with hundreds of people and then drive back home again whilst seeing everyone dossing around in the parks.

noblegiraffe · 02/03/2023 09:05

MisschiefMaker · 02/03/2023 09:01

What? My point was that the unions didn't want teachers to go back to schools even though lockdown was destroying the economy, so I have little sympathy for them now when they complain the schools don't have enough money because it's the economy that funds the schools (or, more realistically debt, which is why we're seeing so much panic at the prospect of higher interest rates).

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www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-government-runs-surplus-54-billion-pounds-january-ons-2023-02-21/

Wizzbangfizz · 02/03/2023 09:07

@Believeitornot my kids and I didnt see my dad who was dying of cancer as much as I would have liked due to the bullshit measures that were put in place erring on the side of caution but good on you being facetious. What makes me angry is how many people died alone unable to get into hospitals, people couldn’t have proper funerals and the millions of kids whose life chances are now limited because they had no semblance of education when it was totally unnecessary.

MarshaBradyo · 02/03/2023 09:09

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:00

How do the strikes drag it back? Please do prove that.

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It was a spokeswoman from IFS on R4. When results came out that were more positive she said that the one thing slowing us down was the strikes.

I don’t think it’s unexpected though, closures cost. Have a google if you want more info but here’s one article

news.sky.com/story/strikes-take-toll-on-economy-as-widespread-disruption-forces-many-to-stay-at-home-12800759

MisschiefMaker · 02/03/2023 09:09

@noblegiraffe that article is about the budget deficit (or surplus in that case) which is a drop in the ocean next to the country's debt burden.

noblegiraffe · 02/03/2023 09:11

MisschiefMaker · 02/03/2023 09:09

@noblegiraffe that article is about the budget deficit (or surplus in that case) which is a drop in the ocean next to the country's debt burden.

It specifically says that Jeremy Hunt has more wiggle room in his budget than expected to e.g. increase public sector pay.

People keep claiming there's no money. And then when there is money, oh no, it has to be spent on something else. They found money for energy subsidies because that was important.

There is never any money for education when it comes to the Conservatives. It's a political choice, not one of necessity.

borntobequiet · 02/03/2023 09:13

Wizzbangfizz · 02/03/2023 09:00

@borntobequiet kids had to wear masks in schools because Westminster didn’t want a row with Nicola sturgeon. There were different restrictions in the different countries. Post viral fatigue syndrome has been around forever and I’d deeply question the many cases of “long covid”.

Kids wore masks in schools - though probably not for long enough - because they’re a cheap and reasonably effective protection against airborne viruses. That was why the WHO recommended them and why the Scottish government mandated them.
Teaching in a mask isn’t ideal and neither is wearing one all day in a classroom, but it’s not as awful as people make it out to be. I wish I had been able to wear one and ask others to do so in the autumn of 2020 when cases were rising rapidly because I might have avoided a Covid related heart problem that resulted in my retirement the next year.

DixitDomino · 02/03/2023 09:14

We all vent privately. I'd be mortified if my Whatsapps were published (edited) for the nation to dissect. We all vent by exaggerating and saying slightly outrageous things to those we trust. It's actually therapeutic. We don't mean them. It's a way of puncturing the situation.
Throw stones if you've never done similar about about a work situation/ colleague/ relationship/ in anger/ frustration.
Can't stand Hancock or Williamson- but this holier than thou criticism is ridiculous hypocrisy.

noblegiraffe · 02/03/2023 09:16

We don't mean them. It's a way of puncturing the situation.

You'd have to explain how the government has otherwise demonstrated that it doesn't generally hold teachers in contempt if you want to assert that those messages weren't meant.

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:17

DixitDomino · 02/03/2023 09:14

We all vent privately. I'd be mortified if my Whatsapps were published (edited) for the nation to dissect. We all vent by exaggerating and saying slightly outrageous things to those we trust. It's actually therapeutic. We don't mean them. It's a way of puncturing the situation.
Throw stones if you've never done similar about about a work situation/ colleague/ relationship/ in anger/ frustration.
Can't stand Hancock or Williamson- but this holier than thou criticism is ridiculous hypocrisy.

What were they doing conducting government business on WhatsApp? It isn’t private personal ranting.

I don’t conduct my work via WhatsApp! And don’t expect government to.

Wizzbangfizz · 02/03/2023 09:21

This is bringing back happy memories of the mask hysteria on here. I wore one when legally required to do so but I’ll never wear one again. I can agree that if we were all wearing the surgical grade masks it may have made a smidgen of difference but I do not for a second buy that the glittery fashion masks and the paper thin blue ones most people donned multiple times made a scrap of difference. Again look at the cases in Scotland.

Believeitornot · 02/03/2023 09:22

Wizzbangfizz · 02/03/2023 09:07

@Believeitornot my kids and I didnt see my dad who was dying of cancer as much as I would have liked due to the bullshit measures that were put in place erring on the side of caution but good on you being facetious. What makes me angry is how many people died alone unable to get into hospitals, people couldn’t have proper funerals and the millions of kids whose life chances are now limited because they had no semblance of education when it was totally unnecessary.

I agree actually.

The restrictions were absolutely absurd in some cases (one hour exercise rule for example) and we could have achieved the same thing by other means.

But, as I said, scepticism around public health became muddied by cranks. And that was because it was clear that this government just didn’t know what it was doing.

Covid -19 is a similar virus to SARS and countries have dealt with SARS before. But for some inane reason, our government didn’t ask other governments for sensible advice on precautions.

We could have invested in testing - instead of throwing money at consultants - they could have used existing frameworks.

We could have invested in ventilation which would have kept schools open, kept hospital infection rates down etc.

And we could have had a sensible discussion about masks - but instead we’ve had so much nonsense about it (masks in schools was stupid as they didn’t wear them all the time!).

I do worry for our next pandemic. People won’t listen to government even if they’re coming out with sensible measures, because they will remember the shower of this government.

lazycats · 02/03/2023 09:25

This is why the tories will (probably) lose the next election. They can’t go 5 minutes without in-fighting and will never be unified enough to campaign cohesively.