Quran School Incident

[Everanewbie]

The reaction to this non-incident is shameful. We're effectively charging this poor autistic boy with blasphemy and his mother is begging for his life.

It’s not about Islam or offending Muslims, it’s about a small section of nasty men who see an opportunity to be relevant. To hell with them.

And this thread is not about free speech, respect or "kindness". It is about a small section of nasty Brits who will jump on any opportunity to be racists. Your description of these people - having met not a single one of them and having depended on the biased views of others (who have also not met them nor have any intimate knowledge of the situation) - is evidence of that. You are as bad as you claim they are. But you are hiding behind anonymity and a keyboard. Does that make you braver? You don't care anything about it, but you have an awful lot to say for someone who doesn't care.

I have been unfortunate enough to meet one of these people, and thankfully they are no longer in my life.

It does the fight against racism no favours when intolerance, violence and intimidation is pandered to. In fact, I believe the effort to cry racism whenever extremism is called out is a form of racism in itself. Why should we hold certain communities to a lower standard than the majority? Are they incapable of living our values?

I'm sorry, you can scream racism all you like. To me, dragging this young boy over the coals like this, involving police, mothers at press conferences, community leaders adding their 5 pennies worth et al is far more offensive than a book getting scuffed.

"Islam seems to be operating as Christianity did 500 -1000 years ago (which prob makes sense given the differing ages of religion so different stages of evolution)"

Well yes, but we've got to ignore that. Religious rights don't trump mine and anyone else who has a vagina, to the degree that we can be classed as second class citizens. We don't have the death penalty in this country and it isn't ok to make death threats.

"it’s about a small section of nasty men who see an opportunity to be relevant."

I think that how small that group is needs to be disputed. If abusive/radical Muslim men are in the minority, why when Islam takes hold of a region do women's and children's rights, even the right to life, disappear? Why does it get more and more radical including men carrying sticks and beating women in public who drive cars and show their wrists? We accept the murder of Catholics across Africa and the stealing of land. We are accepting that areas are Muslim, which has actually only happened in the last ten years and have happened because of murder. There's parts of the Muslim faith, such as the right to rape and impregnate your wife yearly, even if you are selling your daughters to survive, that we have the right to find problematic. Go onto the Vicky McClure DV video on FB and read the comments from the Muslim men living in the UK. There's an issue of feeling as though men own women and it's up to us to not make them angry. It's dangerous to declare not liking parts of Islam as Islamophobia. The Christian Churches have changed many stances and as bad as the sexism is still in the UK it is nowhere near on a par as it is in predominantly Muslim countries. That's without going into attitudes towards gay etc people.

"It is about a small section of nasty Brits who will jump on any opportunity to be racists."

This was about teens doing stupid shit, that needed corrected, yes. But we don't execute children in the UK, so direct criticism as those who called for that and who defended that.

Just to add, no child in the UK should have to be put under police protection, this one has, because of the calls in the Muslim community to kill them, for damaging a book.

I genuinely don't think there should be a conversation about racism and ridiculous accusations of bigotry when we have a situation where an autistic child is getting death threats over a book and his mother is paraded in front of cameras with her hair covered and begging for her child's life. The same deflections happened about young girls being groomed and abused in Kirkby. It's as though some people are so frightened they might not be thought of as progressive left-wingers they will fall over themselves to demonise victims based on each side's skin colour.

What is happening in Wakefield is utterly atrocious. No religious figure should be held up as a community leader. The behaviour of elected councillors and police is shocking - there should be no situation to defuse and if there is they should concentrate on arresting those issuing death threats to send a message that it is totally unacceptable.

👏👏👏

Quite. And why aren’t they arresting those who are issuing death threats? My understanding is that death threats are a crime, whereas tearing a page in a book (religious manuscript or not) is definitely not a crime. What laws are the police upholding? And will this child and his family now have to leave their home and go into hiding like the teacher did, while no action is taken against the persons (mob) making threats?

What is going on in this country?

It's as though some people are so frightened they might not be thought of as progressive left-wingers they will fall over themselves to demonise victims based on each side's skin colour

On MN certainly - less so IRL I think. Happily. I quite enjoy the tortuous mental yoga, but intolerance should not be tolerated for any reason, up to and including (any) religion.

Yeah and the proportionate response to that is a bollocking from a teacher or maybe a detention. It isn't the poor mother of the "culprit" grovelling to self appointed "community leaders" so her autistic son doesn't receive any more death threats

But since when was threatening to kill someone a proportionate reaction to being offended?

I would suggest you read all my posts on this thread and not just a line. Because I have done so. I call out hate wherever I see it. Not contribute to it in the name of "concern".

Total over reaction by all involved. My pet hate is religion in schools. Teach friendships,teach kindness,teach inclusion dont teach about fairy tales. Take religion out of schools this wouldnt happen. We have to find a better way to go on. Seperate communities cause seperation.Let kids be kids, punish kids who are mean,punish kids who dont do the right thing by all means have rules that provide a clear understanding of how the school is run for everyone but get rid of religion.

It was a vile cartoon depiction he used, wasn't it?!

I don't think the image itself was ever disclosed, so we can't know whether it was a "vile cartoon" or a historical piece such as a PP mentioned
Certainly some regard any depiction as unacceptable, but there's surely a difference between a deliberately mocking image and something more scholarly - though maybe not to those whose go-to for any perceived offence is death threats

So who is the arbiter of when criticism is valid and when it is not? Who gets to decide who is discussing something with the aim of vailing racism and who is genuinely appalled/worried/concerned/frightened?

When we ignore certain incidents we drive the hatred into conspiracy theories. Like it or not, Rotherham, Charlie Hebdo, Salman Rushdie, teacher in hiding, the teddy bear given a name by a pupil all happened. The minimizing here is pretending that this didn't happen or that the reaction is somehow justified because of 'racism' or 'hate'.

Only heard about this just now from MN so haven't been following this story but If the boy has autism/SEN then I do really feel for him and his mother.
Autism is a spectrum so some children may grasp the importance of religions/boundaries etc but some may not so easily.
Some autistic kids MIGHT have behaviour challenges and be impulsive or easily led by peer pressure and are vulnerable.
I'm not saying what he did was OK as I'm a Muslim myself and do not like to see my holy book disrespected in anyway but I do feel for the mother receiving threats.
I hope things de escalate for the boy and he can be given some support/education on the topic.

Let teachers teach and not be in constant fear of 'the community'. Shariah law inculcated into state schools - ridiculous. As for the Detective Inspector get out there and arrest the ones who spout death threats. Reinstate those lads and apologise to that poor frightened mum. She has enough on her plate.

Honestly, I think these grown men Muslim 'leaders' are the worse thing to ever happen to Islam. They make Islam look like a hate filled ideology populatied by nutcases. Why don't the people around them tell the to shut the fuck up, why do you let these people drag your religion through the mud with death threats against children.

So is kicking a holy book allowed or not? It is obviously not kind to the Faithful, but then, on the other hand you ate dismissing religion as fairytales

I think it’s up to the police to ensure that things deescalate by doing their jobs properly and arresting the individuals who are making death threats. They are ones who are committing a crime under UK law.

The child has not committed any crime and his need for education on the topic should be dealt with by his parents and the school, not community ‘elders’ or the local councillor, and certainly not the police.

Wow lot of people have a lot of problems with Muslims here.

death threats are obviously absurd but it’s incredibly unlikely they’ve come from community leaders because if they have why haven’t they been arrested. More than likely it’s from an over zealous troll who is more than Likely not really all there himself.

99.9% of Muslims would also think death threats are absurd and laughable but the problem is this is held up as ‘look at how backwards Muslims are, one of them has done this’ and that is being dragged out here, again.

Did you study or work at the University of Birmingham?

@zara223 all kids are susceptible to peer pressure to some degree, it's difficult to resist when a group is collectively trying to persuade one to do something. I certainly wouldn't try and place blame on one child.

The threats are obviously abhorrent and the police should act on them.

Sadly extremists on both sides try to twist things like this to suit their agenda and it makes perfect sense to involve community leaders to calm fears and counter false narratives some of which may well originate from outside the UK as happened in Leicester.

There's also a lot being stirred up by the far right and there's comments here that appear to be lifted straight from their rantings.

Not all people with Autism are clueless you know! This 'poor autistic boy' may have been fully aware that what he was doing was wrong.

It's a book that was dropped or knocked to the floor- be respectful to all books - fairytales? probably