Quran School Incident

[Everanewbie]

The reaction to this non-incident is shameful. We're effectively charging this poor autistic boy with blasphemy and his mother is begging for his life.

Except in Myanmar where they were slaughtering Muslims by the hundreds right? But doesn’t really count because they were only killing Muslims right.

actually turn the other cheek IS a central part of Islam, forgiveness and clemency are huge! So many hadith on this and ayats on forgiveness but it doesn’t suit the narrative of the violent Muslim does it?

But if that’s the case, why did the teacher and his family have to go into witness protection?

100s protesting outside the Batley school which one was the oddball.

Because on threat is enough right, even if it’s by an absolute nutter, it’s erring on the side of caution. If it was a straight forward as a prominent Muslim figure calling for the execution of some teacher then that person would be arrested but that’s not what happens, it’s key board warriors, who even knows if they are UK based.

is he in witness protection like actually though? Or has it just been reported that he’s in hiding? Because the latter is what I’ve read. I know this is old Ie from 2021 but I’d not even heard anyone mention this it was such a non event and I’m Muslim, and attend a conservative mosque. The general thought there is don’t rise to the bait, don’t associate yourself with people who seek to offend you and use appropriate channels to report such behaviour.

Protesting isn’t the same as calling for the death of someone. It’s within someone’s right to protest if they felt that their faith was being attacked. I myself wouldn’t have but I’d have gone to the head and aired my concerns, perhaps this happened and they felt they weren’t taken seriously.

Well I guess that’s what I’m saying - because Islam is lagging a few hundred years behind Christianity is also lagging behind societies built round Christianity. The attitudes would have probably fitted in better round 1500 Europe. Today it’s totally incongruent.

People won’t say it, but that’s the situation, unless one or both of the stances changes there will be tension.

this is yet another example of so called diversity causing conflicts without anyone realistically trying to sort it out.

In what universe is it right that a local councillor should carry out an investigation about something involving a child that happened in a school and then report back to the community while ignoring death threats made by that community?

It’s a publicly elected official representing the UK government (albeit at a local level) condoning the death threats and turning the criminals (the ones making the death threats) into victims. You don’t think that’s wrong? Great, but the rest of us who pay taxes should not have to put up with this.

So who is the arbiter of when criticism is valid and when it is not?

We could fill entire threads with that, but in practice it appears to be those who shout loudest and pose the greatest potential threat to the wider community if they don't get their way - which may well explain why some spouters of hate face consequences and others have a blind eye turned

I'll add that this certainly doesn't just apply to race and religion; as a PP identified, it's fascinating to see posters - sometimes the same ones - hammering away in defence of a preferred minority group while damning others, clearly ignoring that legal protections belong to us all

Interesting, though, to see death threats described as "absurd" and "laughable"; personally I'd choose other adjectives, but it's illuminating all the same

You know why people don’t say it? Because it’s a stupid and ignorant observation

Assume that’s a reference to my comments, ie. Laughable Ie it’s a totally absurd reaction, disproportionate, against what Islam teaches and frankly weird

Honestly religion should be banned, the amount of hate, wars, terrorism, poor lack of judgement and understanding it causes is beyond me.

Because if Muslims don't protest racist/islamophobic attacks, then the rate at which pig heads are lobbed into Mosques and other racist attacks just increases.

Ooh I don’t know!

Position on homosexuality
Stoning for sex

it’s a shame the sufis have added quite a lot to philosophy

but trying to force Islam into modern western society does involve big compromises. Unless compromises are made there will be continued clashes - the question is who should be doing the compromises and why?

It’s a stupid observation and embarrassing on your behalf.

you cannot compare Western European Christianity to Islam, remember the centre of Western European Christianity is in Europe and the centre of Sunni Islam is Saudi Arabia. Most Muslim majority countries are developing and third world countries and third world countries do not have a great track record on human rights regardless of religion, nor education.

sunni Islam did take a more conservative turn after the formation of Saudi Arabia which was, shock horror, supported by the Brits. Prior to that under the ottomans it was far more pluralistic, homosexuality was decriminalised for instance. The conservative nature of mainstream Islam has a lot of geopolitical factors, islamicization of Malaysia post colonialism for instance, the propping up of the Saudi state, arming of the taliban for instance.

islam Doesn’t need to be forced to modernised nor does it need a reformation, we need more scholars and to remember our past

I wouldn't go that far, MamOfFive, even if it was possible; I've the greatest respect for individual faith - as opposed to organised religion - providing that any actions which result from it stay within the law

I'd ban all forms of practice from schools and anything else that's publicly funded though. By all means exercise any faith at a personal level if it's legal, but please don't expect the rest of us to support its promotion, far less to bend the knee to its demands on the basis of threats

Well as I said the Sufis did add a lot to philosophy- but yes Islam does need reformation from where isn’t is currently to fit into western society.

I'm inclined to agree with you OP that this has been blown out of all proportion. It could be solved so simply- teens are admonished and apologise, maybe do something practical like donate another copy of the Koran to the local mosque. Job done.
However, people quickly pile in with their own agendas, wanting to shoehorn this minor local incident into their wider narratives- that Islam is incompatible with British life, that Islamophobia is rife and Muslims are under attack, that Islam is under threat from infidels, that British values are under threat from Islam etc. etc.
I grew up in a town which had a race riot, and even in pre-internet days it was amazing how all these groups piled in and wound everyone up further.
And of course, it's the local people who have to stick their lives and community back together again, long after the professional campaigners and rubberneckers move on to the next supposed outrage.

you clearly don’t understand the Protestant reformation or how it came about, maybe look into that. It came about because the likes of Martin Luther were sick to the decadence of the Catholic Church and believed they had innovated many things in their doctorine so it was intiallt incredibly conservative, puritans for one. Salafism is a reformation of sorts, aiming to strip Islam of innovative practices.

also who the f are you to say my religion needs changing when you are actively demonstrating you know nothing about it. There is nothing about Islam that doesn’t fit into western society. Most religious groups, including the Church of England believe homosexuality is a sin, but that’s the physical act not the desire. Women can wear what they want here, so if someone wears a head covering who cares. There are shura councils that deal with internal politics issues and Islamic divorces but minority every religious group has them (Jews do as well) but the overarching principle in Islam is you abide by the law of the land.

this narrative of Islam compatible with western lifestyles is straight from the daily mail and Sun and is just tedious.

So, if a Muslim child had kicked a bible across a classroom and a Christian had made a threat to kill the child, would you expect your local councillor to investigate the extent of the damage to the bible or to immediately condemn the death threat from the Christian? What would you expect the police to do in such a situation?

Why is there any confusion here? Clearly the human rights and disability discrimination acts need to be urgently reviewed. They have allowed the country to be taken over by lunatics.

im really doubting the validity of these death threats as it seems to be very right wing media reporting on it.

Well, yeah if there was a claim that someone destroyed a bible as a hate crime and then some psycho issued death threats I’d expect both to be looked into. So the anyone who thinks a death threat is an appropriate response to that needs some serious mental help so that person needs to be found and dealt with, that is the more urgent matter and then the second is to ascertain if a hate crime has occurred.

who is taking over? I’m so confused by this thought process? Do you think Muslims are taking over? Subtly making you Muslim too? Is this like how Fox News thought Birmingham was a fully Muslim city? Is this like that? What are you saying?

There’s only you who is making this about Muslims. I said, the lunatics are taking over. By that I mean lunatics within the establishment (the police, the local government) who consider it proportionate to condemn the child or what the child did before the death threat.

There clearly are death threats or the teacher would not have needed to go into hiding for his life. And the media are not far right - that’s just ridiculous.

By the way, the local councillor did this - that’s not in dispute.

It’s what he did - and the fact that he needed to do it - that I find so egregious. Where is his condemnation of the death threats? What is the priority of the government - of which he is a representative - in all this?

Exactly.
If it’s that precious, don’t take it to school. If it got messed up offer to buy a new one. Move on.

Who do you want to condemn death threats? I’m sorry but it’s such a non issue in the Muslim community, this sort of antagonistic crap largely just washes over us becuase it happens so often, I’ve heard neither of these things discussed but I refuse to condemn or apologise because it’s got nothing to do with me

I think you are being deliberately obtuse here. I couldn’t be any clearer: I want the local councillor (who has been publicly elected, represents the UK government at a local level and is paid from the public purse) to condemn the death threats before reassuring the local community that the Quran was not damaged.

His concern, as someone who is paid to uphold the law, should be the death threats and not the Quran. It is utterly outrageous that it isn’t.