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AIBU?

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Original poster

To have attempted to toilet train without DP’s ‘permission”

164 replies

lwatts32 · 27/02/2023 18:39

DP has a 12 (nearly 13) year old son, he's had full custody of him since he was about a year old and I've been in his life since he was 5 and he calls me mum etc. He has ASD and is very delayed. He's still in pull ups, he refuses pads etc and will only wear dry nights which are expensive. I'm also 24 weeks pregnant and I've just got our youngest out of nappies and me and DP were talking about trying again with SS.

We last tried when he was 8 and it didn't go well, we made the mistake of taking them away and putting him in underwear which made him very distressed so we gave up after about 2 days and haven't tried again since.

SS seemed interested when DS was getting praised for using the toilet so after school on Friday (DP was away with work) I asked him if he wanted to do the same, he said yes but I was unsure as he usually says yes as an answer to most questions. However, on Saturday he went on the toilet a few times, he did have a few accidents but then yesterday he was dry all day.

DP is now home and I've told him and he isn't happy that I've done this without his ‘permission’ as all decisions about SS should be up to him, reminded me about last time - although I've not mentioned wearing underwear to SS or taken his pull ups away, accused me of pushing SS into this etc.

Just to add, DP does seem to ‘baby’ SS, I don't mean that in a horrible way as I know he does struggle, but for example when DP is away SS usually will change himself, he will ask me but I encourage him to try to himself first and he knows I'm around if he needs help, however DP agrees and doesn't encourage him to try himself first as he says it's easier if he just does it.

Was I BU?

OP posts:
MamOfFive · 28/02/2023 07:25

SS said yes, so you gave it a good go there's no harm in what you did.

Your DH is being controlling, with autism you need to go with the child's lead and if he wants to try then do it - you don't need dads permission especially if dad isn't really trying it can take months to toilet train so trying for a few days and giving up is actually laziness on dads part and yes I say this with a child with a diagnosed learning disability.

MamOfFive · 28/02/2023 07:27

Also i forgot to add it took my son 18 months to toilet train - but we stuck at it with him and his school. 18 months of accidents, but we didn't give up after a few days.
So I do kind of agree with some of these comments saying it's neglect.

x2boys · 28/02/2023 07:28

SchoolTripDrama · 28/02/2023 04:13

Btw, yes I am aware there is ASD but as a parent to a child with ASD, I still stand by my last post.

But clearly you are not awa're how broads the spectrum is 🙄
half my sons special school are still in nappies it's a high school
many of them have a diagnosis of autism along with learning disabilities.

bittrist · 28/02/2023 07:36

You highlight the expense of keeping him in pullups, but I agree with PP that not even seriously attempting to toilet train in so long is almost neglect. This is about dignity and independence. DSS quality of life will be improved by being able to use the toilet. Not training him because it’s ‘easier’ is no excuse.

Yes it may not happen for every child with learning difficulties and if it does it may take longer, but all the more reason to work at it. I think you 100% did the right thing.

MamOfFive · 28/02/2023 07:38

@x2boys the difference is her SS wants to try and they haven't bothered they tried for a couple of days four years ago and gave up that's not even trying let's be honest.
The other kids parents probably have most likely attempted time and time and time again.

berksandbeyond · 28/02/2023 07:43

Your SS is lucky to have you in his life.

I can’t really understand why you’d willingly have 2 further children with such a crap father though!

x2boys · 28/02/2023 07:44

MamOfFive · 28/02/2023 07:38

@x2boys the difference is her SS wants to try and they haven't bothered they tried for a couple of days four years ago and gave up that's not even trying let's be honest.
The other kids parents probably have most likely attempted time and time and time again.

Not necessarily,my sons special school helped me enormously to.train my son ,but ONLY, after I pushed it they told me for years he wasn't ready ,,it took a long time and it's a slow process and tbh much harder for the school as a in the early days he was having severe accidents a day and needed to be changed several times
posters on here have no clue just how hard it is to toilet train SOME, disabled children.

Wrongsideofpennines · 28/02/2023 07:51

I think its great that your SS did well, and I'd be tempted to keep going with the encouragement. But I do think it's something you and your partner should have discussed. I think its like any parenting decision.

I don't think my DH would have appreciated me just going ahead and giving our baby food without telling him we were starting weaning. Or even the same circumstance of toilet training without first at least telling him I was doing it.

GoodChat · 28/02/2023 08:00

posters on here have no clue just how hard it is to toilet train SOME, disabled children.

But we're not talking about your children and nobody would think badly of the man if the child had had a few accidents and got upset etc. but instead he just hasn't bothered. And then he's sons actually doing really well and showing signs of being ready but his dad isn't supporting that.

Naunet · 28/02/2023 08:18

So you’re not married, but you are pregnant and left to care for his son whilst he’s away at work, but only to the point of a nanny, not allowed to make any parenting decisions? I hope you work and have access to your own money and your name on the house, because now you know he is not a reasonable man, and possibly doesn’t see you as an equal.

aSofaNearYou · 28/02/2023 08:46

Wrongsideofpennines · 28/02/2023 07:51

I think its great that your SS did well, and I'd be tempted to keep going with the encouragement. But I do think it's something you and your partner should have discussed. I think its like any parenting decision.

I don't think my DH would have appreciated me just going ahead and giving our baby food without telling him we were starting weaning. Or even the same circumstance of toilet training without first at least telling him I was doing it.

Discussing it as a team is different from asking his permission as all decisions to do with DSS should be up to him.

RedToothBrush · 28/02/2023 09:03

The son is showing signs of wanting to attempt it.

It would be ableism to say he shouldn't have agency to say yes to his stepmum without his father's permission.

Stepmum equally should be able to respond to signs of willingness without permission because of the son's agency because that's in his best interests to acknowledge that he is trying and wants to try.

The fact nothing has been attempted four years in this context does beg the question about how supportive the father is and whether he's holding his son back because it's too much like effort to attempt.

Couple that with his response about needing permission and that is abusive as it's a failure to recognise his son having an ability to express what he would like to do in a positive manner. It's trying to remove agency from both his son and partner.

It might be the case that the son struggles with toilet training and doesn't achieve it this time, but if he is expressing a desire to try and increase his independence that absolutely is to be encouraged.

I'm not entirely sure why any of this is being framed as ableism other than because someone else is projecting their experience onto this situation and also saying 'oh he's disabled therefore it's too difficult' because they've struggled. Which is hardly pro-disabled either.

Either we say that disabled children have the ability to express themselves or we are saying that their parents control them to this degree.

EL8888 · 28/02/2023 09:10

LaFemmeDamnee · 27/02/2023 18:45

So you're good enough to act as a mother, and tend to all his personal care needs. But not allowed to make a decision. Fuck that.

This! How long does he want this to go on for? You’re trying to help his son

quietnightmare · 28/02/2023 09:21

I are primary cater
You are his mum
Your good enough to be left in charge of SS, me called mum, change him, love, take care of him and feed him but you are not allowed to make any decision. In true mumsnet speech your husband needs to give his head a wobble

quietnightmare · 28/02/2023 09:21

You sure *

quietnightmare · 28/02/2023 09:21

You are*

SchoolTripDrama · 28/02/2023 12:06

@Ladyofthesea It's still neglect to not try. Plenty of delayed children can and do learn this, they're delayed, that doesn't automatically mean nevered. Especially with children that are delayed or have severe ASD you need to be more patient and put more/longer energy in teaching them things to get the most out of them. One if my friends children wasn't potty trained till 10, but they kept gently trying. In the end you should want your child to (happily) reach as many milestones as they can.

Exactly. This was my point

Original poster
lwatts32 · 28/02/2023 13:06

We had been talking about trying recently, as I'm due our 2nd baby together so it will be more expensive with nappies for baby, pull ups for DS (he isn't trained overnight) and pull ups for SS.

DP did agree we should try but after the baby is born, which I was unsure about as that'd be a lot of change at once. He does get DLA for him but I don't think that'd be affected if he was out of pull ups.

DP doesn't agree that SS has made his own choice as I've been asking him if he needs the toilet and he says yes so I take him, it's 50/50 if he actually does anything so DP doesn't think he understands and has said he won't be asking as it isn't right to force him etc

OP posts:
GoodChat · 28/02/2023 13:15

@lwatts32 but you're not forcing him - you're encouraging him. It's better to encourage him and praise him when he goes that leave him in pull ups, otherwise how will he learn?

It's different if he was saying no and then having accidents but I don't see the harm in encouraging toilet use. I don't think it means he's not ready if he's happy and comfortable.

SleepingStandingUp · 28/02/2023 13:15

So you aren't competent to help DS'S toilet train but you ARE competent to deal with all of his needs whilst DH is away?

If DH is going to pull the "he's MY son" crap then he needs to be around to care for him.

GabriellaMontez · 28/02/2023 13:30

lwatts32 · 28/02/2023 13:06

We had been talking about trying recently, as I'm due our 2nd baby together so it will be more expensive with nappies for baby, pull ups for DS (he isn't trained overnight) and pull ups for SS.

DP did agree we should try but after the baby is born, which I was unsure about as that'd be a lot of change at once. He does get DLA for him but I don't think that'd be affected if he was out of pull ups.

DP doesn't agree that SS has made his own choice as I've been asking him if he needs the toilet and he says yes so I take him, it's 50/50 if he actually does anything so DP doesn't think he understands and has said he won't be asking as it isn't right to force him etc

It doesn't matter.

If you're not good enough to decide he made a choice. And your opinion isn't valid.... let your dh look after him.

Stop being treated like hired help.

Original poster
lwatts32 · 28/02/2023 17:15

He doesn't seem upset or overwhelmed as he was before, so I'm not sure why DP has an issue with it but I'm unsure if to carry on, he may not get it 100% yet but if I do carry on it'll save some money at least as he won't need changed whilst at home. I also do think it's good for his development to carry on as he has shown he can do it but I'm not sure as DP isn't also in agreement.

OP posts:
Onnabugeisha · 28/02/2023 17:23

Well I sort of get where the child’s father is coming from as you don’t have parental responsibility for the boy. You should have run it by him before embarking on toilet training earlier than what you both discussed and agreed on.

The toilet training appears to be going well, but it’s the principle of you going behind his back to make decisions for his child that is the issue really. I would admit fault there and apologise for changing the agreement, and highlight how it’s going well and try and get agreement to carry on.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 28/02/2023 17:31

Has he not woken up to himself and thanked you for following his child's lead in this?

Find your anger, tell him he is being ridiculous.

ArtixLynx · 28/02/2023 17:42

he is being ridiculous, and needs to pull his head out of his ass. I have a 16yo with ASD myself and it took until 8 to get him completely dry, he had the odd accident right up until 12, we just let him take the lead with everything himself.

Child led PT'ing is absolutely the way forward with ASD children, all encouragement and no punishment.

So long as DS is happy to try, and not in distress, absolutely let him get on with it as long as he is happy to do it.

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