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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To have attempted to toilet train without DP’s ‘permission”

164 replies

lwatts32 · 27/02/2023 18:39

DP has a 12 (nearly 13) year old son, he's had full custody of him since he was about a year old and I've been in his life since he was 5 and he calls me mum etc. He has ASD and is very delayed. He's still in pull ups, he refuses pads etc and will only wear dry nights which are expensive. I'm also 24 weeks pregnant and I've just got our youngest out of nappies and me and DP were talking about trying again with SS.

We last tried when he was 8 and it didn't go well, we made the mistake of taking them away and putting him in underwear which made him very distressed so we gave up after about 2 days and haven't tried again since.

SS seemed interested when DS was getting praised for using the toilet so after school on Friday (DP was away with work) I asked him if he wanted to do the same, he said yes but I was unsure as he usually says yes as an answer to most questions. However, on Saturday he went on the toilet a few times, he did have a few accidents but then yesterday he was dry all day.

DP is now home and I've told him and he isn't happy that I've done this without his ‘permission’ as all decisions about SS should be up to him, reminded me about last time - although I've not mentioned wearing underwear to SS or taken his pull ups away, accused me of pushing SS into this etc.

Just to add, DP does seem to ‘baby’ SS, I don't mean that in a horrible way as I know he does struggle, but for example when DP is away SS usually will change himself, he will ask me but I encourage him to try to himself first and he knows I'm around if he needs help, however DP agrees and doesn't encourage him to try himself first as he says it's easier if he just does it.

Was I BU?

OP posts:

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2023 21:01

Let me get this straight. Your DP hasn't wanted to toilet train his son since he was eight. He's now 12. Thats four years ago.

You ask your SS if he wants to do something and he says yes. He's twelve and looking to further his own development.

But your partner has a shit fit at you 'authorising' it.

It's not even about your role in this. It's about your SS not being allowed to develop. When asked if he wants to go to the toilet himself - something about his basic dignity which he should have agency over - even as a child with learning difficulties (keeping in mind that we allow two and three year olds the chance to express whether they want to toilet train).

It's controlling and abusive for your partner to be having a shit fit at you over it.

It's even more so when you consider the dynamic with his son. Who hasn't been encouraged to toilet train for four years.

I am curious as to who cleans up the accidents too. I suspect it's you a lot of the time and your step son clearly trusts you. If he is trusting you and saying yes he wants to toilet train to you, then it's about your step son expressing himself. That's got fuck all to do with your partner in terms of making a decision. It's your step son making a decision which he is clearly capable of even with learning difficulties.

And actually that's the angle that needs shoving down your partners throat. Never mind the utter contempt he has for you.

Your step son is being deprived of any independence / dignity he can manage because it is inconvenient / difficult / doesn't suit your partner.

That's abusive. Pure and simple.

ForestofD · 27/02/2023 21:15

100% correct. As soon as he was interested was a perfect time to start-that's half the battle. I taught my youngest loads of things by modelling that behaviour with her older sister. Well done you for seeing and acting on it- that's good teaching.

x2boys · 27/02/2023 21:19

GoodChat · 27/02/2023 18:44

He hasn't tried to toilet train his child for five years because last time he got upset. That's borderline neglect.

If he's severely disabled it's not neglect at all my son has severe autism and learning disabilities he's nearly 13 he's toilet trained now but he was 10 when we got him out of nappies ,half his special school are still in nappies some will never train in guessing you don't have a disabled child?🙄

Sharpbridge · 27/02/2023 21:39

Your DP isn’t parenting well I’m afraid, and is being very rude about you trying to help this shit situation. He should be thanking you. I guess he’s embarrassed that you’ve reminded him ofnhis laziness on this issue.

SS will NEVER learn toilet independence unless someone takes the time to work through weeks and weeks of encouraging him, enabling him, and crucially refusing to do it all for him. Of course it is easier to just do it for him.

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2023 21:51

Sharpbridge · 27/02/2023 21:39

That's it.

It is neglectful even if a child with disabilities if the child is expressing a wish to try and toilet train and it's 'too difficult' for the adult because there was distress four years ago.

Four years is a long time.

The point here is the kid is showing signs of wanting to and making a positive expression. That's for ALL the adults who care for him to respond to accordingly. Not go around seeking approval to appease other adults egos.

Plainascanbe123 · 27/02/2023 22:59

I don't understand your DP's reaction. Surely he should be pleased...

He's basically saying it's okay for you to act as SP for all this time, but the moment you do something good without him you are overstepping your boundaries and you should have sought his approval first ...

And he's deminding you that he's happy for you to care for your SS all day and every day, but you still don't have 'authority' to make decisions on SS welfare. Why is he in a relationship with you then and allowing you to help raise his child?

Sounds like he's immature and wants everything his own way.. he also doesn't seem to want to see his child make progress.

Plainascanbe123 · 27/02/2023 23:00

*reminding

saraclara · 27/02/2023 23:06

x2boys · 27/02/2023 21:19

Show quote history

That poster pointed out that the father hasn't tried though. I taught children like your son, and we would talk to the parents every year about attempting training where it's possible. If it doesn't work, then were give it a break again. But there's no way we wouldn't work with the parents towards it.

Clearly OP's SS is showing the potential to be dry and clean.

Ladyofthesea · 28/02/2023 02:14

I find it very concerning that he hasn't tried to toilet train his child for so many years. Tbh if I would know him in real life I would be concerned enough to call social services to have him checked for neglect. In what other areas is he neglecting his son? Thank god the boy has you.

StarsSand · 28/02/2023 02:37

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/02/2023 20:23

all decisions about SS should be up to him

Then all care should be up to him.

Yes this.

Your DH should be beyond appreciative of you. Many people wouldn't have taken on what you have. Your SS is lucky to have you.

Good luck with the TT.

Mummyoflittledragon · 28/02/2023 03:20

You seem to be under reacting to this reaction imo. It’s great your dss wants to try to toilet train. This is a strange reaction.

I know it’s off topic but I’m wondering if you’re putting yourself financially and your dss and your relationship in a precarious position. Just you’re his mum in every sense of the word but by the sound of it not legally. You’re not married either. Your dp just told you what he really thinks about your role.

SchoolTripDrama · 28/02/2023 04:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SchoolTripDrama · 28/02/2023 04:13

Btw, yes I am aware there is ASD but as a parent to a child with ASD, I still stand by my last post.

sashh · 28/02/2023 04:56

Your SS made his own choice.

Jesus Christ! Twelve, almost thirteen years old and still in nappies?!?!?!?! That's neglect. Bloody hell

Did you miss the buit where he is very delayed?

WiddlinDiddlin · 28/02/2023 05:02

What were you supposed to do, tell him 'no you can't try that'...

ItsRainingCatsAndDogsAgain · 28/02/2023 05:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Neglect?! I can't believe I'm reading this. Many older children, young adults and adults with disabilities need to use nappies, pull ups or pads.

ItsRainingCatsAndDogsAgain · 28/02/2023 05:16

SchoolTripDrama · 28/02/2023 04:13

Btw, yes I am aware there is ASD but as a parent to a child with ASD, I still stand by my last post.

Don't you realise that not every child with Autism is like your child?

pinkfondu · 28/02/2023 05:24

Hopefully it is just shock and maybe feeling shit he couldn't manage it, but you sound like youve done exactly the right thing.

ItsRainingCatsAndDogsAgain · 28/02/2023 05:27

However, it is very expensive, we don't get them for free as we would pads so we order online, we get 27 for about £15 and I do worry in case they stop fitting him in a few years and if that happens I'm not sure what we'd do.
Just to reassure you, OP, that if they are needed there are plenty of pull ups in young adult and adult sizes.

GoodChat · 28/02/2023 05:43

@x2boys I didn't say a 12 year old in nappies is neglect. I said leaving a 12 year old in nappies rather than trying to teach them to not use nappies because of an incident when they were 8, is borderline neglect.

PennyRa · 28/02/2023 06:46

Did you say about the cost to him? It might have come across as though you were putting finances over the child's wellbeing, even if that wasn't your intention. And the timing of it could have felt like deliberately going behind his back even if it was just coincidental

Ladyofthesea · 28/02/2023 06:58

sashh · 28/02/2023 04:56

Your SS made his own choice.

Jesus Christ! Twelve, almost thirteen years old and still in nappies?!?!?!?! That's neglect. Bloody hell

Did you miss the buit where he is very delayed?

It's still neglect to not try. Plenty of delayed children can and do learn this, they're delayed, that doesn't automatically mean nevered. Especially with children that are delayed or have severe ASD you need to be more patient and put more/longer energy in teaching them things to get the most out of them. One if my friends children wasn't potty trained till 10, but they kept gently trying. In the end you should want your child to (happily) reach as many milestones as they can.

ElephantInTheBoxRoom · 28/02/2023 06:58

What a difficult situation for you OP. Your partner should be grateful for your support.

What is ASD? Is it an incontinence/urinary condition? There should be some sort of medical support available.

PennyRa · 28/02/2023 07:03

Shocking amount of ableism on this thread

Beseen22 · 28/02/2023 07:09

I don't have a child with ASD but my DH also physically gets our child ready when I know he is slow but perfectly capable and it drives me insane. I work with the elderly and I see it all the time "oh it's just easier if I do it for her" and the person is completely capable of standing up and getting to the toilet and washed and dressed themselves, albeit incredibly slowly. We should be encouraging independence wherever possible. Your DSS is going to be hitting puberty soon and if he can attend to his own hygiene needs with support and guidance that would be much better for him. To have 'got it' in 2 days at that age and with what I can assume are significant needs is phenomenal. It is neglectful to insist someone voids in an incontinence product and change it after 'because its easier' when they have shown that they are capable and willing to use the toilet.

I think its opened a can of worms really though, I would assume you have no parental rights for this child even though you are responsible for a significant amount of care. The way your DP has reacted to an incredibly positive thing is a massive red flag to me.

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