Issue with neighbour

[user01082312345]

My husband and I recently moved into what I suppose you would call a triplex apartment (we have neighbours who live upstairs and below). In the contract we signed, the landlord was very strict about no smoking and no dogs in the building, which is perfect since we're nonsmokers and we have a 2.5 year old son. The first day we moved in, the entrance smelled strongly of cigarette smoke which I was disappointed about since one of the reasons we chose this particular building was it's no smoking policy. We weren't sure which neighbour it was, so we messaged the landlord who immediately got back to us and said he would contact the tenants to remind them not to smoke. Afterwards, the downstairs neighbour approached my husband (she lives with her boyfriend and two kids, around 9/10 years old), and apologised for having smoked inside. She said she usually smokes on the balcony, but she was drunk celebrating the New Year. We said no problem, but then a few weeks later the entrance smelled of smoke again. It was a really cold day, so we guessed she just didn't want to go out on her balcony to smoke. Even still, my son's health is really important to me, and since the landlord was coming to visit us about another issue, my husband once again mentioned it to him. Again, he reminded the neighbours not to smoke. Since then, the woman neighbour doesn't smile or return our greetings, so I'm guessing she's pissed we 'snitched' on her. Not long after, they got a dog which is also against the building rules. The dog occasionally barks and whines, and has almost woken DS up from his naps during the weekend, and it also barks at us when we're getting into our car and it's tethered on a leash outside. My son is well behaved for a toddler and rarely throws tantrums, and if he does we deal with it pretty quickly. However, he is an early riser, and he is usually up between 5-6am most mornings. When he wakes up, I try and keep him occupied in his room with his toys and whatnot and stop him from making too much noise until it's time to get dressed and have breakfast, but he's still an active toddler, and sometimes he'll drop a toy on the floor, or run around. On two occasions now, the neighbour below has banged on her ceiling when my son was being 'too noisy.' It happened again this morning when he ran from his room to the kitchen (he wasn't wearing shoes, he was still in his pjs), and it was 6:20. It's half-term here so the neighbour's kids will be off school and I guess the neighbour was still in bed, but my toddler doesn't know that! It really pissed my husband off that she knocked, so he knocked back. I'm not a confrontational person and I was hoping to have good relations with our neighbours. I also thought she would be more understanding having two kids of her own. Like, how quiet were her kids when they were toddlers? Has anyone been in a similar situation and do you think she's overreacting? I now dread the early mornings and I panic every time DS makes a noise, thinking the neighbour is going to make a complaint. If she does, then I'll be tempted to tell the landlord about their pet dog!

You sound unbelievably precious. Her having a dog doesn’t impact you at all. Her smoking very occasionally in the hall impacts you in the most minute possible way.

Being a good neighbour is about compromise and there being some give and take. If you’re going to be petty and run to the landlord every time there’s a tiny issue (instead of behaving like an adult) then don’t expect her to have any patience when you cause a disturbance. She’s being petty about the noise but you were petty first so you set the tone.

If you were that fussy about the smoking and the dog situation then you probably should’ve looked up first that it is almost impossible for the a landlord to regulate or enforce rules like that.

Triplex apartment, not heard of those but I might be behind the times.
A first floor flat then?

So your allowed to make noise but get annoyed when your neighbour does it? When people live in close quarters like this you need to be considerate to others, but easy going when things go wrong.

on the day you moved in you made a complaint about 1 neighbour, you didn’t even wait to see if it was a habitual problem or have a nice polite word- they are now holding you to the same ‘high’ standards, expecting not to be woken up at 6 in the morning!!!!

i think you have got off on the wrong foot here, and seem to want things all your own way.

I’m glad you’re not my neighbour. Also you live in a flat, triplex lol.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that they make noise (their dog barks, they shout at the dog, they argue etc) but we don't complain or bang on the wall to make it stop. We tolerate that. But they won't tolerate our toddler making noise. We only didn't tolerate the smoking because of my son's health and also my husband has asthma. The smoke fills up the entrance way and also seeps into our flat, and since DS's room is close to our apartment door, it can even get in there.

I'm a British expat living in Montreal with my Quebecois husband, so yeah in the UK it would be called a second floor flat. And here the landlord has every right to make his buildings nonsmoking. In the contract,k we signed, they can evict us if we don't adhere to the building's rules.

I think there's a big difference between having a dog which barks occasionally and having an odd cigarette and being woken up by noise from a toddler running around band dropping things at 6 in the morning! I'm not surprised that your neighbours have banged on the ceiling - I think many people would be banging on your door at that time!

A toddler making a daily racket at 5am is far more antisocial than smoking in a communal area once a month!

Do they make noise at 5/6 in the morning? There is a difference between day to day living noises and noise at antisocial times. If you put the washing machine on at midday no one could complain, you do the same at 5am and they would. By your own admission you are making noise incredibly early.

regardless of your husbands asthma you could’ve a) waited and found out if it were a regular issue before you complained and b) found out who it was and had a quiet word before escalating to the landlord. You have set the tone as intolerant- you now can not be surprised when they are holding you to the terms of the lease which I would suspect all states the right to quiet enjoyment of the property.

From one cigarette? Really? If your DS/DH’s health is so severely impacted by one single cigarette then it must be a nightmare for you with traffic pollution etc? I assume you have an air purifier?

I actually studied law in Canada and, whilst I’m not qualified to practice there and it’s been a while, I disagree. It’s illegal to smoke in the common areas but only if the building has six flats or more. Whilst it is a breach of contract, a minor breach of this kind wouldn’t be sufficient for a court to grant an eviction order - courts work on a much higher threshold than that. It’s the same as how your landlord can evict you if you don’t pay your rent but if you’re one day late on one occasion then a court would never approve that eviction. The breach is very minor and, to be honest, you’re not a party to the contract between the other tenant and the landlord so any hardship you’re suffering is irrelevant to the breach.

I lived under a flat where children were allowed to run and jump all day long and I was almost suicidal.
You underestimate the degree of noise your PFB makes, OP. I would complain vociferously if I was your neighbour.

It certainly is!

I think people are giving you a hard time OP.
OP said she chose the flat because the landlord said they did not allow smoking in the building or dogs. The neighbour does smoke in the building and has a dog. The OP has a child and children are allowed in the building. The OP is within her rights to complain but she hasn't complained about the dog presumably if she did the other tenants would be evicted.
It's the neighbours who are not abiding by the terms of the contract not the OP. She has a child and children do sometimes make a noise. People living in flats have to accept that. But you don't expect to have smoking or dogs in a building that doesn't allow smoking or dogs .

You've brought this on yourself.

You lost me at the dog 'almost' waking your son'.

Triplex would be if your own apartment has three floors.

Anyway, the neighbour hates you now anyway so I'd keep on at the landlord about the smoking and the dog. Nothing to lose.

In French a triplex would mean that you were living over three floors.
Anyway. I get the annoyance, but I don't think you are going to be getting on well with these neighbours anyway. I don't think you are overreacting but is she? What's the noise like, is it sounding really loud to them?

My son isn't running about and jumping/making noise all day long. He attends nursery during weekdays, and at weekends, we do arts and crafts, jigsaw puzzles, watch films, go out somewhere, go to his grandparents' etc. He literally ran from his bedroom to the kitchen once this morning and the neighbour banged on the ceiling. Also I was never planning on reporting her dog to the landlord. I only have issues with the smoking because it is against building regulations, we pay a lot in rent each month to live in a clean, smoke-free building, and it's putting my family's health at risk. Even if she just smokes once, the smell lingers and it's disgusting.

Thanks for your support!

Also sorry about misusing the word triplex. I live in a French-speaking part of Canada and they call it that here.

A bit of noise from children playing is normal. As long as a child isn't kicking a football against walls indoors, or playing loud music, then it's completely acceptable.

But if you move into a building that stipulates no smoking and no dogs, then it's reasonable to complain if someone is smoking and keeping a barking dog there.

Unfortunately, some on Mumsnet prefer dogs to children, so you may get some nasty comments about your objections to having a dog in the building.

Ah, so your son levitates when moving from one room to the other in your triplex?
You're seriously underestimating the degree of noise he makes.
Try living under a toddler yourself. You'll soon change your tune.

GPfavo, here is something I pulled from the Quebec government website. It was also clearly stated in our contract upon signing, that smoking was forbidden.

Problems with neighbours
Important! Secondary smoke, whether from smoking tobacco or cannabis, can sometimes bother the other occupants of a building.
Any lessee who disturbs the other lessees' enjoyment of the building may be liable to certain recourses by the lessor before the Tribunal administratif du logement, including, possibly, a recourse for resiliation of the lease.

God, I'd hate to live next door to you. Complaining to the landlord about a dog that "almost", but didn't, wake your son up, and a whiff of smoke in the entrance.😗

Meanwhile, your son is thundering around at 5am...🙄

If your family are this sensitive to pollution, and dogs, I'd rent or buy somewhere in the wilds of nowhere.

You've created the problem with your neighbour, so you'll have to live with it.

I imagine the noise from your toddler echo’s and thuds around their flat. Then, because you’ve complained about her smoking, you’ve got her back up so she’s getting her own back.

I do think toddlers should be in ground floor flats really, or it does make it a bit noisy for everyone else. I know sometimes it can’t be helped, but I think you’ve broken all neighbourly feelings with your neighbour now

A toddler getting up at 5 is pretty much what toddlers do! If a child running barefoot from one room to another disturbs the underneath neighbours that much then either the flats are insufficiently soundproofed or they are way too noise sensitive. She’s skating on pretty thin ice for someone who has actually broken the terms of the lease more than once. I’d have another try to get on good terms with them though. Bake a cake, take it round and apologise for any early morning noise. Let her know you are doing your best to minimise it and tell her all about the asthma too and why you particularly chose these flats as the absence of cigarette smoke is so important to you. She may thaw, and it’s much more pleasant to be on good terms with the neighbours if you possibly can be. However, if she carries on being unpleasant I’d be reporting the dog ownership and going nuclear. What a shit life for a dog too, being tethered outside on the regular!

Children making some noise is normal. Running and playing isn't objecionable. It's nice to have kids around.
Shouting, adults arguing and dogs barking is unnecessary.