How do you not get offended by school cliques?

[Purpleicing]

Could do with some advice to stop my confidence being more battered

4 years into school - son now year 3 - a once friendly group of mums in the class has developed into "the trendy confident ones" and "the rest of us"

The trendy ones not only invite each others children to the parties (at the exclusion of the children of the poor, the fat, the old, or the anxious), but have spend weekends on a 3 day partying spree - this weekend a bottomless brunch at a restaurant, one house party, and one day out at theme park with kids, all over social media

This in itself is just normal life I know, but what has riled me is that it doesn't stop them using the less trendy ones who don't get invited to play.

Specifically, we have a park holiday home which I have let a few people use for nothing or v little in past when everyone was more friendly across the whole class (think £20 for a long weekend) . Whole set of them asking to use it this summer already.

Other mums outside the clique I know do their fair share of help with after school pick ups and childcare

I'm also in an "approved profession" job and three times this week people have asked me for either legal advice or can you approve the passports (on my fifth lot of passport approval or 'can you sign my mortgage application' this month!)

My confidence is already battered, aibu to think jog on and find someone else to sign your bloody passports?

Having moving schools I can confirm the following:

The vast majority literally don't give a shit about you and will never talk to you again if you were to leave.

At the new school be very very wary of being actively targeted the first week you are then (super friendly, playdate invites etc) - they are the people to avoid long term.

My morning now - arrive just on time, drop and go. Pick up I sit in the car until the bell has gone and whisk in the get them. Polite 'hello' to those that seem friendly, but I'm not getting over involved in the slightest.

Oh and stop letting out your caravan (sorry we've got rid now) and start charging £10 per passport (sure, no problem, here's my business card)

But why?

You think you should only be allowed to speak to people on the school yard who your child lays with?

That’s crazy.

*plays

bellswitjwhistles

But I was that super friendly mum during the first week a new mum appeared! A new mum was standing on her own for 4 days until the fifth day I introduced myself and we’ve become really good friends.

I think what’s coming across clearly is you are not alone op. There are others out there who would like a close friendship with other mums at school and will feel resentful or envious when seeing those who managed it.

instead of focusing on this group and what they have together, why not reach out to other mothers, start trying to make friends, on the understanding there will be some others feeling like you . Just because you do not gel with this group specifically or they don’t gel with you to a close friendship level, doesn’t mean there are not others out there you would gel with and would be ha[py to form a close friendship with you and go out and so stuff with.

I’m autistic so I’m excluded by the school mums (and everyone else). Earlier this week one mum in the Facebook group said her son “Bob” had been awarded support at school, and the other mums were all “wow how great”, “anything we can do to help”, “maybe we could arrange weekend play dates to places that Bob likes, we wouldn’t want Bob to be excluded because of his disability”.

Yet they’ve never invited me or my son to do anything at the weekend. Because disability is only tolerated in children. A normal mum with a disabled child is supported and invited in, but a disabled mum and her child are not welcome. They’re so concerned about making sure that Bob isn’t excluded because of his disability, but they’re perfectly happy to exclude my son because of my disability. Telling their kids “you must include Bob” while they themselves exclude me.

@Nooyoiknooyoik

OK... so would you apply that approach at work? Refuse to socialise with one individual unless you're socialising with all of them? Or when you're doing your hobby... I can't go for a coffee with x after book club/football in case y gets offended? It's completely unworkable.

How do you make friends ever in any scenario unless you are allowed to choose? The cornerstone of friendship is that you are drawn to, and bond with, people are relatively more compatible with you than others.

Your children will form their own friendships at school, whether you like it or not. As a parent you play a role in facilitating that to the extent that you organise the logistics and liaise with the parents. That automatically brings you into closer contact with some parents than others.

Are you going to shun these parents when you see them in a school context and pretend not to know them because of a small theoretical risk that another parent standing 10 feet away may become offended that you haven't talked to them as well? What then happens to the parent you do know who has now taken offence that you walked past them? Can you not see how utterly mad this is?

Interesting the number of posts belittling OPs experience.
I have absolutely stood and observed these cliques in many playground years (as well as every walk of life).
The sort of group that, maybe unintentionally, is making the most noise/chat in the playground, sharing snacks, making plans to go to coffee shop/park, and tends to comprise the more confident/social people of similar types.
If a couple of others then turn up to same coffee shop and sit at separate table, or take kids to park, there's just a feeling of 'more of them in a big gang' vs a couple of others.
I'm secure in my outside school friendships but it's hard not to feel slightly lonely in these situations. And if it's twice a day without fail for years on end it can occasionally pull even the most confident, professional, nonenvious people down.
And still asking for favours when you're not in the big gang shows a real lack of self awareness that these mums (are either real dicks or) clearly have no idea how their friendship group makes others feel.
The way I warded off feeling left out as much as possible was to always talk to another similarly isolated/shy person in the playground - to make myself feel better (and hopefully them too). I'm looking back fondly now of the people that I have talked to regularly over the years.
Friendship /group dynamics are a real thing OP seen across all aspects of society. It does hurt at times, feel lonely, a bit disregarded and not quite fitting in. And yes all the worry about lack of social connections for kids too. The only thing you can do is manage it yourself (other friends, boundaries, hold head high) and its important to work on not being bitter/envious as that just destroys you. And be mindful and respectful of others if you ever find yourself in that big group.

You can’t be serious that you’d ban all friendships like this?

It could possibly be that they go about seeking to systematically exclude "the fat, the old, or the anxious", but far more likely in my view is that they just make friends with other people who they like or parents of people their children like.

The result is the same though. Only including people you like is the same as excluding people you don’t like. Because there always ends up being somebody (me) who nobody likes or wants to be friends with. And I’m used to being excluded because of my disability, I’m used to nobody wanting to be my friend, but it kills me when my disability means my son gets excluded from being able to spend time with other kids. If he had a different mother he would be included. He’s being excluded because of me and it’s devastating.

It's not just school parents. There are many people who only want to know you if you can do something for them.
Work out your response - "I'm not letting out my holiday home this summer and I'm not signing passports at the moment".
You don't need to give reasons.

You don't say what has knocked your confidence, but I think this is what you need to work on. You can't change other people, but you can change how you react.

But why didn’t you become friends with the isolated person you spoke to?

it’s so funny because mumsnet is full of people who treat extroverts and friendly people like subhuman animals and praise unfriendly introverts who refuse to do anything for anyone but then (apparently) spend their lives bitterly and enviously watching extroverted people have coffee with their friends.

Saying hello to your child’s friends mother doesn’t mean you have to avoid your own friends. You’re wilfully “misunderstanding” me.

From your posts, I’m pretty sure we have nothing in common, yet if my small child was friendly with yours and they needed the mums to arrange a play date I would make the effort to put up with you for the sake of my child and yours until they were old enough to make their own arrangements.

At work or at a hobby I would be highly unlikely to meet you outside of the hobby/work. There are no children involved so there would be no reason to. Although saying that I would say hello to you if there was a large group of friends chatting in the coffee room and you had no one.

But why don't you get the odd Hi!, or 'bit cold today' type chat - I mean these are people you see a lot.
I'm a DGM now and hate (probably a bit strong) the school pick up - all staring into the middle distance avoiding each other.

It's not up to others to organise your friendships. It's up to you yourself. If you want to make friends you've got to work on it. Arrange gatherings, play dates or whatever.

One of the mums I know (and am friends with) at school is disabled and English isn't her first language (and that added to her disability makes communication even harder). When our kids first started playing she arranged play dates where I came too. We now meet for coffee etc. she has other friends too.

Couple of responses.

"Sorry that doesn't work for me" followed by a tinkly mumsnet laugh and walk away.

"Sure you can use the home, here are the details for the company/website that deals with rentals, they have all the info about fee's/available dates etc."

"Sure I can give you advice/sign pictures, here is my business card so you can book an appointment, receptionist can advise you of the fee's etc.

This sounds like a You problem.

Don't do them favours if you think they're deliberately excluding you.

@Nooyoiknooyoik

I don't think I am wilfully misunderstanding you... I am trying to make a point (maybe in a slightly exaggerated way) that this very over-disciplined approach to making friendships that is designed to ensure that life is totally equitable for the children is neither natural nor workable for most people.

You seem to have a very guarded and suspicious approach to the idea of socialising in the first place which may explain why you feel like this: you say you are pretty sure you would have nothing in common with me (based on nothing), but that you would "put up with" me if your children were friends. Leaving aside the fact that this is mildly unkind (and I'll take that because I've pushed you), it suggests that your whole approach to socialising is that its an intrinsic negative and a chore to be got through for the sake of your children. Maybe I'm being unfair but this is what comes across.

But many people don't feel like this and don't expect to "police" their own social interactions with people they like in order to maintain some invisible social taboo around school friendships because there's a minor risk it may piss off some other parent that they barely know. And why should they, honestly?

You may feel I'm having a go at you unfairly but there's a broader point here which I feel quite passionately about, which is that a huge amount of women (and it is mainly women) feel deeply threatened by the idea of other women forming friendships based around school. While I acknowledge that this is very real for some people, I think its profoundly unhealthy, both for the women and the children, to think that school should be a friendship-free zone. And we shouldn't just endlessly fuel it by calling them all "cliques" and suggesting they are all status-hungry backstabbers.

But they are not excluding the OP or her children, just not including them, which is a huge difference!

Can you not see how that’s the same thing?

This is a ridiculous attitude. If someone invites 4 people then they aren't excluding 25 people. They are including 4 people who they like. If you want to go out, try arranging events with 29 others and report back about how that went.

Of course it's not the same thing - excluding is purposeful, but not including isn't necessarily purposeful. If I am arranging a playdate with say 3 other school mums it's because my DC is close friends with their children, and the other 26 children in the class or their parents do not even cross my mind at that point. So it would be a big stretch to say not including is purposefully excluding.

Yes it's loathsome. Ignore these people, they neither care for you or like you.

They always exist in primary schools and they are dreadful people.

Take a deep breath. Smile and be bright and breezy at the school gates.

If you can, help out occasionally with PTA stuff and chat to other parents.

Your park home 'doesn't have any availability this year, we're so busy!'

Arrange plans with your friends who are unconnected to school, to look forward to and enjoy.