To post lingerie shots on my social media..

[Junglejane8]

Right here me out here..
Long term lacking in body confidence. Have never felt very beautiful or feminine. I've been working on my self-esteem recently and a friend who is a photographer treated me to a burlesque shoot. She said it would be a very empowering thing to do, and it was. I actually felt sexy and beautiful and powerful.
The pictures have come through and I'm so happy with them. I want to post them on my social media but am worried that it will come off as vain, desperate, attention seeking etc.
There is lots of crap on social media but then I think of some of the women I follow who post lingerie / swimwear images and I don't judge them at all. I think they are beautiful and confident. I want to do that too.
Or is it vacuous and shameful?

If it’s unacceptable to bodyshame fat women it’s unacceptable to bodyshame fat men. Again your post demonstrates internalised ideas, ideas about what is acceptable shaped entirely by the male gaze. Men don’t have to be f*able, women do.

@ZiriForEver Male nipple shared online isn't more acceptable than woman's bra. Actually male nipple isn't more acceptable than female nipple.

Not true, a man posting a shirtless picture on Facebook is fine but a woman exposing her breasts will have the algorithm delete said picture and blocking your profile for a few days. The algorithm is sexist as fu-ck because it allows male nipples but not female.

Because male gaze - female nipples are sexualised by the male gaze, male nipples are not. The algorithm draws on and reflects the inherent bias of the creators (overwhelmingly male) and the users.

Yes, I know.
What I wanted to say is:

1. there is now good reason for that (I see it as conservative right wing approach) 2)it sounds that many posters here are buying into this sexism and consider it a feminist position.

I know where it originated. That doesn't mean that women can't enjoy it for themselves, and only with women.

I originally got into pole for the sports/tricks side, but then I started to love other styles. They're all fun in their own ways.

I'm not going to not do something that I find really fun, just because of where it originated.

>Women normalising this represents an internalisation of the male gaze.

Nope. As someone who does this stuff for fun I KNOW that for me and many others, it has NOTHING to do with internalising the male gaze.

I'm not body shaming fat people, I'm talking about social conventions being applied differently to both men and women, like women being able to post cute pictures of themselves but men not. I don't think women should be only allowed to post "fuckable" pictures, I think we should be able to post whatever makes us happy (fuckable or non) without having some pearl clutching brigade judging us. We've already suffered from that for centuries, so no need to continue with it.

Of course, I know a lot of women who do pole classes and btw fair play to you as I know from them it’s not an easy class. I’d say you are probably right re pole dancing classes actually in that it CAN be separated from its origin in that loads of women do it for fitness and fun. However I don’t think burlesque can be in the same way. I’m not saying women shouldn’t do either incidentally, women should do whatever they want. Posting sexy pics online isn’t feminism though and the male gaze is stronger than ever thanks to the power of the internet, those are my two points really.

Sounds like you were body shaming fat men tbh. Of course women should be able to post whatever they want. The point about what you had to say about larger men and women and how those are seen determined by their sex underlines how the f*ability of women determines how their image will be interpreted versus the same image of a larger man. A larger middle aged woman faces ridicule in a way a middle aged man with a beer belly rarely will. This is largely down to the societal expectation that a woman should at all costs appear as attractive as possible and as available to men as possible. It’s reached such a ridiculous stage in our society that even elderly women (Jane Fonda, Helen Mirren) in the public eye are deemed ‘sexy’ or not. That’s not anti ageist liberation of women, that’s saying women of every age should be sexy or desirable to be worthwhile.

@Eyerollcentral A larger middle aged woman faces ridicule in a way a middle aged man with a beer belly rarely will.This is largely down to the societal expectation that a woman should at all costs appear as attractive as possible and as available to men as possible.

I agree, and it's absolutely unfair!

@Eyerollcentral That’s not anti ageist liberation of women, that’s saying women of every age should be sexy or desirable to be worthwhile.

Again, I agree, the fact that a woman "value" is supposed to be based on being fuckable or not is completely messed up, but once assumed how utterly wrong that message is it should not stop us from posting a sexy picture. My value is not based in how fuckable I am, but if I decide to post a pin-up type picture clad in a bikini one day because I'm feeling jolly it's not because I have low self esteem and that's my only value, and if someone thinks the contrary that's his bloody problem to sort out, not mine.

Absolutely. But the OP started this thread saying that had been working on her self esteem and so thought it would be empowering to post boudoir pics online. That is not the way to build self esteem and is nothing like the circumstances you have posted about above. The OP had these images taken to present a sexy image. I’m not anti them in themselves at all, indeed a close relative of mine had a session done after a really difficult period in her life and the images were beautiful, made her feel beautiful again and meant a lot to her. I knew how much it represented to her to have them done and I was so proud of her for having the courage to reclaim that part of herself she felt had gone away. She didn’t post them online though. That’s where the line is crossed between doing this for me and doing this for you to approve of me.

I just don’t understand why you posted on here in the first place. Your mind was already made up so why ask strangers for their opinions or advice 🤷‍♀️ none of us on here know you so it doesn’t matter what we think anyway. If you want to do it then do it.

As someone who has a Facebook friend who regularly posts pictures of herself with her arse hanging out, your friends do not want to see that. The only people who want to see that are pervy blokes. There's nothing cheesier than those boudoir photos, or in fact any 'sexy' pictures whether it's male or female.

@Junglejane8

Women shouldn't have to conform / not wear what they want / not post what they want. Why is me posting these pictures got anything to do with men? It's about me, for me, because I want to. So many women on here are making it about men... It shouldn't be about men.

If you post the images, men will see them - all types of men. Boys, too. You are naive to think otherwise. By posing in a boudoir style - if that's what it is - you are unconsciously or otherwise styling your body in a way that is attractive to men. I'm glad you're pleased with the way you look; but to frame this as a demi-feminist action would be disingenuous.

And I repeat: any employer would not necessarily question the images, but your judgement in posting them.

@Eyerollcentral That’s where the line is crossed between doing this for me and doing this for you to approve of me.

I agree, and I believe it might come down to a generational thing. I am under the impression your friend might be older (?)
so when she got those professional boudoir photos that made her look good she saw no need to post them online, problem is these kids nowadays just feel the need to post their every move online because that’s what their peers are doing. These kids are seeking their validation online and not in real life nowadays, and that’s opening a whole other can of worms in my opinion. The OP sounds like she’s on the young side but I might be wrong.

My relative was 30 when she had them done. The generational aspect here is a red herring.
‘problem is these kids nowadays just feel the need to post their every move online because that’s what their peers are doing’ yes and that’s why a lot of them are seriously insecure and mentally ill. Defies my understanding why then literally anyone would be recommending this as a course of action to the OP who is mid twenties from her post.

Loosing sense of reality, living in public and Validation from strangers is a huge thing nowadays. It’s a vulnerable place. To be And You need a good head in your shoulders to grow up like this. I believe the OP was looking for validation/approval to her actions of posting those pictures by opening this thread but it backfired a bit.

OP, if you feel prickly about the responses here, imagine if you a) get very few likes/ comments b) get negative comments c) get really spiteful, hurtful comments

What do you genuinely think will happen? Work back from there with the other possible scenarios. Unless, they all cover the validation that you are sexy, which is what you need, then I would not risk it.

Hmm, you’ve gone from not wanting to wear swimwear at the beach to posting pictures of yourself in your undies online. If you think posting these pics on your sm is empowering, then knock yourself out, it’s ultimately your decision. Each to their own but empowerment is the last thing that comes into my head when I see randoms posting pics of themselves on sm.

It's about me, for me, because I want to.

Do what you want then. Sigh.

pearl clutching brigade
Classic way to diminish women's concerns.
We're hysterical and uptight if we object to anything which gives us concern.
Is it possible to have a discussion without resorting to this sort of labelling?

Yes. Get on. Post the photos.

I'm so over the discussion of the whys and why nots with you. You are so determined to be right 🙄

But remember, once one other person has access to those photos, they are no longer your property

Look OP, of course you can do what you want.

All most of us are trying to point out is that when they are out there, they are out there FOREVER.

You might not care now but how about your future self?
The one that wants to be a Teacher.
The one who wants to be a therapist
Your future DC, their friends finding these photos on line, possibly to tease them about it

Show me a straight man who would consider getting a sexy photo shoot done and then posting it online who isn’t getting paid for it. I’ll wait… the point is it ISN’T socially acceptable for a straight man to do it. Why then is it socially acceptable for a woman?
Agre with this.
This is where liberal feminism with its focus on you do you, everything is empowering and please don't look too closely at systemic issues gets us to. They've redrawn feminism to a place where the focus is whether an individual woman thinks a particular action is empowering and that's it, and worse tells other women off for encouraging critical thought about why we make certain choices.

It's no coincidence that the all about me, empower me tells women that the same old sexist expectations are now female empowerment. It's same patriarchal rubbish, but promoted by women.

Oh god, you’re only mid twenties.

I feel sad for you and wonder about What’s led you here. My daughter would never consider this, she’s the same age, but in a profession were this would bring disrepute and hinder progression . I would feel I let her down badly if she decided that posing on insta in her knickers was in some way empowering.

I think you need to own your thought process. You see some filtered images of yourself and think wow I look good on there and want others to think the same and to tell you. You want to show off these filtered images and call it empowerment instead of owning what it is. A shallow need for validation and admiration.

what is it you want to do with your life, what are your career choices and ambitions?

how will you feel if you don’t get the comments you want? What if you get a couple of ones that aren’t very nice. Can you cope with them?

And if employers want to be precious about it, good luck finding anyone (proportion of people of that age who has topless/bikini level of pictures online is just too big).

This is an interesting point.
There is a huge disconnect between what employers think and what generation Z and eventually Gen Alpha think is acceptable. Unfortunately for people like the OP hiring managers tend to be older and less accepting of things like this.
This may change and z's and Alpha's move into senior positions BUT people tend to become more conservative as they age and I think there will be some sectors where this will never be acceptable.