AIBU to ask for double embryo transfer?

[Dexy007]

I'll try to give all the relevant information upfront:

in my mid-30s, my husband and I didn't feel ready to be parents but were conscious of our ages so we paid privately for two rounds of IVF (it's not that expensive in the country we live in - not Europe) and over those two cycles we ended up with 10 x 5 day blastocysts. I was 36 (exactly) and 36 and two months when we did these cycles.

Although no known fertility issues (we had never tried to get pregnant) clinic said my husband had lazy sperm so they did ICSI + IVF. I mention this because there is a slightly heightened risk of multiple births with ICSI, and to explain why we aren't tempted to try to get pregnant naturally (it seems likely it won't happen for us with my husband's sperm, and my frozen embryos are 2.5 years younger than I am now...)

I'm now 38. Do I go for double embryo transfer or single? What would you do if you were me? If I am lucky and the transfer(s) work I would be 39 when I give birth. My clinic has of course explained the success rates to me and I know the odds are stacked against us.

I hate the idea of pregnancy and birth (it is a factor in why we just didn't feel able to follow the usual 'get engaged get married get pregnant' pathway). The idea of completing our family with a twin pregnancy is so tempting. We would be getting a FT nanny because we have no family support (live overseas) and because we both work full time and have hectic jobs/schedules so I think we could manage 3 years of chaos and sleepless nights with twins as well as we could manage a newborn and a toddler. Maybe I'm naive.

But of course the pregnancy would be riskier and twins face so many more issues.

Argh I don't know what to do. AIBU to ask for two embryos to be transferred? My clinic doesn't have any rules about it as such, they have just said it depends on lots of factors.

This. Very transactional and then handed over to a full time nanny. Do you actually really want to be parents? Really really?

No that isn’t that radical. However, having a baby changes your life. You may not want to or be able to live how you are right now. Having one child is having a family.

Exactly. Pregnancy for me was awful, left me disabled and the birth very difficult, traumatic. Having the baby at the end was by far the easiest part. For some women both are equally hard or easy or the inverse of my experience.

Yes, they only freeze the best embryos/blasts so all 10 of yours are of excellent quality 👍
A hatching blast is even better.
So, statistically, a Grade 1 hatching blast would have a really high chance of implanting & resulting in a live birth.
Of course it depends on other issues like womb lining, condition of your uterus, genetic condition of the embryo etc…
I would ask for one of the Grade 1 to be defrosted initially for transfer personally.
My one and only live birth was one of 2 hatching blasts. The other implanted but didn’t develop into an embryo (empty sac)
Egg age was 35
ICSI due to male infertility.

Many cycles with 1-2 embryos ranging from 3 day to blasts.
A few positive pregnancy tests but only 1 live birth.
No female infertility issues.
Previous natural pregnancy (with previous partner)

It’s a massive lottery.
Statistically you’ve got a 50% chance… it works or it doesn’t.

Since you’ve never tried to TTC or had any transfers I would only go with a single embryo for your first transfer. I used to work in a fertility clinic and transferring 2 embryos does not increase the success rate, it only increases the chance of multiples. Also remember a single embryo can split into 2. If the first transfer was unsuccessful then maybe I’d reconsider.

You're getting an awful lot of judgemental comments on this thread, OP.

If I have understood correctly, you did IVF to buy yourself a bit more time because you were already in your mid 30s and not ready for kids yet. I think if you were willing to go through that to make sure you didn't run out of time, it's clear that you do want kids.

And of course having a nanny Monday to Friday once you've gone back to work is really no different to other forms of childcare, especially if you don't have access to a good daycare. We didn't manage to get a spot in a crèche when i went back to work midway through the year sl he was cared for by a childminder in her home along with one other child. If we'd had twins it would have been cheaper and easier to pay someone to look after them in our home.

It's all very well saying children need to be with their parents for the first three years, but some of us need to go back to work so we can keep a roof over our kids' heads and put food in their bellies. I get 16 weeks' paid maternity leave, not three years.

As for your question, OP, no, I probably wouldn't do a double embryo transfer. You no longer need to worry about age related fertility issues. If you go through pregnancy once and don't want to do it again, just have the one child. You may well find that pregnancy and childbirth isn't as bad as you fear.

Finding it hard or frightening is understandable. But horrible and disturbing ? It's a natural process.

Why are you so keen to dismiss other people’s pregnancy experiences? Some people reading this (hiya) have come very close to death during their pregnancies. We have EVERY right to describe that as horrible.

A horrible experience yes, the idea of pregnancy itself as horrible ?

The original claim you disputed was “For some pregnancy is a disturbing and fairly horrible time.”

Emphasis on “some”.

I just wouldn't go ahead with any of the procedures.

I was going to

I think it is for some people though. Even those who struggle to get pregnant can find pregnancy horrible.

I personally would not for the following reasons:

• You haven't actually experienced infertility so I think there's a better than usual chance of single embryo transfer being successful for you
• Double embryo transfer may reduce your chances of success and create difficult/painful scenarios such as something being wrong with one twin.
• Twin or heaven forbid triplet/quadruplet pregnancy is higher risk. Your career is important to you and you are planning a relatively short maternity leave (no judgement). You could lose weeks/months of maternity leave to the NNU if you had even modestly premature twins
• Even in a totally healthy/optimal twin pregnancy you are likely to be more uncomfortable and have greater effects on your body. Think more nausea, more pain, more stretching, possibly not being able to choose the mode of childbirth etc
• I totally get your longer term reasons for wanting a child though you are not as enthusiastic about the pregnancy and baby phase. I think other people are being unreasonably judgmental. However, you don't know how you will actually feel. You might find you enjoy/value the baby phase more than you anticipate. Many parents feel a real wistfulness about this phase once it is over. Speaking for myself, I'm glad I've got to experience it twice over with my 2 children, though it's also been very hard at times. You are planning a relatively short maternity leave. I think it would be much easier to enjoy and cherish a single baby than twins.
• Twins would be much more challenging scenario with your no family support and busy / chaotic work schedules. If you find a single baby extremely challenging you have the choice not to have another baby. If you have twins, the way I see it you're on extra difficulty setting with no way out(!)
• The embryos are frozen and they aren't getting older. If you want to have a second child, you're odds aren't much worse in your 40s then they are now. Singletons allow you more flexibility and choice on planning your family. You need more flexibility I think because of your demanding careers.

The only advantage I can see to having twins is only being pregnant and going through the newborn phase once. However, as mentioned above, that pregnancy and newborn phase is likely to be much worse than with a singleton. And you get exactly the same leave and maternity pay to deal with it. I think it's a rubbish deal for parents of multiples!

Good luck.

I was going to ask what kind of (full or partial chromosomal) testing your embryos had but see that you've answered that they are untested. In this case, even if have developed well to day 5 and look good, they are very unlikely to all be genetically healthy and this does lower the chances of success somewhat. Some abnormal or mosaic embryos can self correct but others can be incompatible with life so sadly even successful implantation doesn't always lead to a viable pregnancy. In your shoes, I would personally start with a single embryo transfer with the understanding that you may need several transfers before you become pregnant. You don't want to lose two embryos at a time if the transfers don't work for whatever reason as it is true that a healthy embryo can be compromised by an unhealthy one. If single transfers aren't working, you can then consider moving to double as you get older and may have less chance of a second later pregnancy.

On the point several people have made about embryos splitting, the chance of this is only slightly higher than in natural conception, it's a fallacy that it 'often' happens. So I wouldn't worry too much about that. I've been professionally and personally involved in the IVF world for over 5 years and have only seen 3-4 split embryos.

On the issue of trying naturally, your husband's lazy sperm would be more of an issue for IVF and wouldn't necessarily impact otherwise. Many many men have less than perfect sperm in terms of motility and mobility but are never tested so you'd never know. So you don't need to rule out trying naturally on that basis alone. Best of luck whatever you decide.

@Norwen thanks that was such a helpful post. I appreciate you typing it all out

Nannies can and do work 50/60 hour weeks with young babies, trust me. A family I know also has a weekend nanny.

I use childcare for myself because I had to go back to work (as a nanny!) thankfully I found a job where I could condense long, long days into 3 and have the rest of the time with my one year old, who is in nursery on those days. However for financial reasons he will be our only one. I still see as a complete family.

I had a baby because I wanted a baby. And a toddler. And a small child, and a teenager, a young adult, and all the stuff in between. Because unless something awful happens (god forbid) you’re getting all of it, not just the bits you think you might enjoy better once a more tedious stage is out of the way. If that makes me judgemental and sanctimonious, (it doesn’t) so be it.

I would also seriously consider just trying naturally to get pregnant, alongside planning to go down the IVF route. IVF pregnancies are inherently higher risk for poorly understood reasons.

@Skinnermarink i’m glad to hear it, we could use the extra hours!

Only slightly higher. Mostly to do with the placenta hence why they want to induce at 40 weeks.

Opt for 1 embryo... safer for you and baby. IVF should never be used with an aim for cutesy twins. We had IVF, have high-pressured high earning jobs, both full-time- so that bit is doable. But transfer 1. Check you like being a parent! We now have 3 :-)

@Dyslexicwonder I suffered through two horrendous HG pregnancies that have left me with ptsd. It was so bad I got sterlised at 35 so I would never have to go through it again.

Yes, my pregnancies were horrific and I wont sugercoat that because yours was simply wonderful. Newsflash, not everyone has the same experience as you. Jeez.

Sorry OP to derail. That comment has incensed me.

Further to your later updates, I would suggest just one.

The best laid plans of mice and men …..

The idealistic view you have of your family, and family life, could be very problematic. You might not have a child that can travel, or is able to appreciate seeing the world, you may get a child with disabilities who needs a lot of looking after.. you might not be able to carry on working. You might get one with ASD (like I have), where you don’t get loads of “special mummy and DD” moment … where it’s hard work. You might get one that struggles with anxiety, or who has ADHD. You may not be able to find someone to look after them, and have to finish your career. You may get one who needs caring for as an adult.

Head over the the SN boards, and read a few of those stories, and ask yourself what would you do if this were you.

I was the same I thought … school… sixth form…university etc, but that’s not the path I’m on. It’s not what I was expecting, but it’s where we are. DD is depressed at the moment, and it difficult.

on a slightly different note, I had a family member who had 2 implanted, and ended up with triplets

No, I can describe as I see fit. My experience of pregnancy was truly horrible. I felt obscenely ill, I developed antenatal depression to the point of feeling suicidal. You may have had a magical experience but I didn’t. To me it was a horrible experience that I endured.

You don’t get to police how I describe my own experience because it doesn’t align with yours.