AIBU to ask for double embryo transfer?

[Dexy007]

I'll try to give all the relevant information upfront:

in my mid-30s, my husband and I didn't feel ready to be parents but were conscious of our ages so we paid privately for two rounds of IVF (it's not that expensive in the country we live in - not Europe) and over those two cycles we ended up with 10 x 5 day blastocysts. I was 36 (exactly) and 36 and two months when we did these cycles.

Although no known fertility issues (we had never tried to get pregnant) clinic said my husband had lazy sperm so they did ICSI + IVF. I mention this because there is a slightly heightened risk of multiple births with ICSI, and to explain why we aren't tempted to try to get pregnant naturally (it seems likely it won't happen for us with my husband's sperm, and my frozen embryos are 2.5 years younger than I am now...)

I'm now 38. Do I go for double embryo transfer or single? What would you do if you were me? If I am lucky and the transfer(s) work I would be 39 when I give birth. My clinic has of course explained the success rates to me and I know the odds are stacked against us.

I hate the idea of pregnancy and birth (it is a factor in why we just didn't feel able to follow the usual 'get engaged get married get pregnant' pathway). The idea of completing our family with a twin pregnancy is so tempting. We would be getting a FT nanny because we have no family support (live overseas) and because we both work full time and have hectic jobs/schedules so I think we could manage 3 years of chaos and sleepless nights with twins as well as we could manage a newborn and a toddler. Maybe I'm naive.

But of course the pregnancy would be riskier and twins face so many more issues.

Argh I don't know what to do. AIBU to ask for two embryos to be transferred? My clinic doesn't have any rules about it as such, they have just said it depends on lots of factors.

Us too!

Your later replies make a lot more sense. In your circumstances would go with one, but appreciate it's such a difficult decision. I had two embryos transferred and one survived.

My (overseas) clinic doesn't grade. them like they do in the UK. They grade them 1, 2 or 3, but they only freeze grades 1 and 2. We got 5 grade 1 and 5 grade 2. 4 of them were starting to hatch which the embryologist said was good! I don't know what that would translate to in the UK - it sounded to me like they don't grade them so precisely here.

I agree with this. Seems to be a tick box exercise.

I think if more people thought through having children so well, the world would be better for it.

the method of “yeah fuck it” and having a baby and then only later finding out the cost of childcare etc is not the best just because it’s how most seem to do it.

I applaud OP for being so careful with her decision making. A baby is for life not just for Christmas!

It doesn't sound like you want children OP. I'm not sure why your bothering to go through a risky procedure for a child you don't really want. It is perfectly ok not to have children- don't feel pressured that you need to have one.

Can i be honest with you Binfluencer? I don't WANT a baby, i want a family. I want little people to love and take on holiday and show the world. I want to be 65 and have my son/daughter bring their beau round for tea on a Sunday. I have no relationship with my one sibling and I've made my peace with that but DH and I are nice people (i think!) and i think we would do a good job of being parents.

These are MUCH better reasons for having children than the standard 'I want a baby'.

Ten embryos is a great number OP. I've had IVF and got 2 embryos from one round, so there was never much question for me - one transferred each time. I think if I were in your exact shoes I would have PGT-A done on the embryos, then one transferred and see what happens. There are so many risks with twin pregnancies - for you and the babies. It's easy to romanticise having twins but I have friends with them and it's really, really hard.

You need to be very aware of the possibility of birth defects / complications and how you would manage that. You need to be open

The risks when me and my friends had babies in later 30s are 1 in 27 chance. BUT it turned out me and every single one of my mum friends had birth defects which has a huge impact on you. We were unlucky but it’s not that uncommon.

For me, my DC was in a medical devise full time for months, we had weekly hospital visits for months, surgery. They have to wear a medical device for a good few years and we have regular hospital appointments until adulthood. Friends are in similar boat with different conditions (eye, heart, feet … all birth defects).

Then there are special needs and neurodiversity - half the families I know have 1 child with additional needs or mental health problems. They are really common now.

You cannot outsource these responsibilities to a nanny. One or both of you need flexibility to deal with these responsibilities and your child has to come before your career. I say this as a career woman.

If you want twins go for it, but you need to be ready and willing to be flexible and adapt. You cannot predict and control what going to happen unlike your career.

I wouldn’t do it, especially as your embryos are likely to be good quality. I’ve been in the infertility world a long time and have seen some very tragic stories with twin pregnancies.

Twins are more riskier in my opinion and appear to have more risks of having disabilities compared to singleton born children.

You will get good advice on the infertility boards here, although I'd recommend being transparent and thoughtful that your situation isn't exactly infertility.

I would recommend a singleton

two cycles with single transfer is as likely to produce success as one with two. Stats are hard to read but broadly get you to that.

If it's male factor I'd just go for it now with one transfer.

@Dexy007

That makes sense! I didn't really want a baby or toddler either! The chaos, the lack of sleep, the bloody crafts.

But they are late primary/secondary now and much more rewarding.

At 6 or 9 months I wouldn't have a child in childcare Monday to Friday 8.30 to 5.30. That's just cruel.

Hi OP, you seem to be getting some more measured responses now (instead of the earlier ones wanting to nitpick how you'd written your post rather than answer the question!).

We had lots of IVF to have our children and I read lots of literature too - the most recent studies are tending towards saying that a double transfer can lessen the chances of any implantation at all. However, it sounds like you have high quality embryos and so your chances of success are probably high enough that you could have twins.

I completely understand the urge to only go through everything once but still have two children - I felt like that too at first. My firstborn was very early though and we spent time in hospital. The number of twins in SCBU with us was eye opening and when we found out we were successfully pregnant with our second, I was terrified it could be twins.

It is your decision to make, of course, but knowing what I now do, I'm really grateful that we had two singletons. Pregnancy is tough but wasn't awful for me and I love that we had a chance to enjoy two baby stages separately. I know you've said you're more interested in the child your baby would become but I thought that too and actually they gain their personalities so early! Watching my older child become a sibling has been really joyful too.

Good luck with whatever you decide x

yes testing is a very good idea….but my clinic doesn’t offer testing. So they’d need to be transferred, thawed by new clinic, a little cell nicked from each, refrozen….I gather it’s a bit dangerous for the embryos.

if I did it again I’d have used a clinic that can do testing and then my understanding is that they can pinch a cell or two from the blast before freezing it and then test the cells they pinched. You live and learn!

And what happens if you end up with a child with disabilities then? Its not always that simple.

Same to be honest. And I had IVF.

The lower quality embryo reduces the implantation chances of the higher quality one, so for that reason I wouldn’t.
I have known five people pregnant with twins. Two of them had twins who died when they were still in the hospital, one pair have cerebral palsy from the delivery and two pairs are fine (although one pair was in the NICU for months). People underestimate how risky a twin pregnancy is

What? Every parent I know works. I don’t know any stay at home mums or dads, working is perfectly normal and essential in some cases.

The context given was "We would be getting a FT nanny because we have no family support (live overseas) and because we both work full time and have hectic jobs/schedules"

Implication: they work very long and odd hours, perhaps not knowing what time they'll be home or if they will get called away and that a FT nanny would be raising the kids on the most part, perhaps living in.

But OP changed her tone to say "mon-fri 9-5" type of normal working hours for most people. Which isn't the same as hectic jobs and schedules.

I had several double embro transfers. I got pregnant on two occasions. On both occasions I lost one twin at 7ish weeks and the next at 11ish weeks. The miscarriage of one triggered the loss of the other. Obviously, you can't say for sure if either would have survived as a single pregnancy. I personally would transfer one.

Go for single transfers, much better chance of success.

@Dexy007 I didn't have my embryos tested. Not much point with two. Also I've read conflicting accounts - apparently abnormal embryos can self correct after transfer. It's a very difficult decision. Not sure what I'll do on my next round.

Best of luck to you 🙂

I'd say one just going on your posts. You can't rigidly plan for a baby to slot neatly into your life. It's lik a bomb going off, you have no idea how pregnancy will be for you, you could sail through it, but equally could be in and out of hospital. Everyone expects a child without disabilities but don't always get them.

Good luck OP. Hope it's everything you expect.