To think schoolgirls wearing exposing skirts isn’t a feminism issue but a safeguarding one?!

[Moonicorn]

Following on from the thread about skirt length inspections, AIBU to think stopping underage girls from revealing their underwear and bum cheeks to male teachers (or any teachers) isn’t ‘internalised misogyny’ but basic safeguarding?

Or am I just ‘not enlightened enough’ to understand that underage girls can expose what they want to grown men as long as they’re ‘happy and comfortable’ with it?

Disclaimer: I believe adult women can wear whatever TF they want and are not responsible for men’s reactions to them, but this is about children which is a different ball game.

Interested to know your thoughts!

Weird as when my high school let us wear trousers (2000) we all jumped at the chance.

Firstly male teachers often take students swimming, either on trips or if they do swimming for PE.

Secondly if a person choses not to go to a swimming pool as they are so unnerved by female thighs they should not be a teacher.

A shocking number of male teachers get struck off for having relationships with their students. The victim there are female students, not other male teacher. They don't feel safe because of the behaviour of their colleagues. Their discomfort is not woman's problem.

It's really not hard as to why teenage girls wear this gear. And it's as much to do with social hierarchy as anything else.

Half the time the skirt wearing/make up etc is really nothing to do with attracting men, it's a competition between the girls as to who is "queen bee". Who they deem to be the top of the social tree.

As a teenager I never wore make up or rolled up my skirt for me. I went to an all girl's school with almost all female teachers and I am heterosexual so definitely not to attract anyone. Nope ...it was all about who was social top dog.

But that's probably because they allowed it rather than enforced it. You had the choice.

@Mooshamoo

Im defending the right of children not to be sexualised. Regardless of what they are wearing.

And yes, we have a long way to go in addressing why young girls and women want to conform to sexualised appearance.

But I'll never be in favour of slut shaming or victim blaming

Because women in trousers or long skirts don’t get sexually abused?

If the teachers at this school really thought that, they’d let the girls wear trousers.

But also shouldn't we have rules that where there is a setting where adult males and teenage girls are:

That the teenage girls shouldn't show their knickers/bums.

The same as teenage boys shouldn't show their bums around adult females.

It is for the children's own safety.
It is very basic safety practices.

If a boy came in and sat down in a classroom with his bum totally out, would any of us think it is acceptable?

No girls have their bums totally out.

They come in standard, long an extra long lengths in M&S. The longest length available is 31.5 in.o

A shocking number of male teachers get struck off for having relationships with their students.

What's the number?

They are uncomfortable because they know they can be accused of "looking" if there's something to look at. Many of them are middle aged with daughters that age and just feel like they are being "set up" to be caught. I absolutely 100% agree that no girl or woman is "asking for it" even if she was butt naked but this is a professional environment. We all get told not to put ourselves in situations where we can be accused of something untoward, eg dont be alone in room with a student with the door closed, but male teachers are unable to protect themselves from allegations of "perving" if it's literally there in the middle of the lesson. The vast, vast majority are not "getting off on it" or enjoying it, literally the opposite.

Men have a right to go to work without having to see the underwear (or inner thighs) of underage girls. If a man insisted on showing me his underwear that would be sexual harassment.

Teenagers are pretty dumb. They get dumb ideas. One of those dumb ideas is that it looks cool to have your skirt at knicker height. I see it in the street, as well as girls wearing a bra with an open jacket over and nothing else on top 🤔 and I don’t want to. And yes I’m female.

Totally agree OP.

It is 25 years since I was a teenager and 29 since I was in high school, so teenagers might be different these days, but I doubt it.

Why did we roll up our skirts so short you could probably see botty-clackers, arse-biscuits and gussets...

Because we could.

Because (we thought) it made us look very sexy, grown up and clever.

Because (we thought) it made us look more attractive.

Because we were made to wear a uniform and therefore the only way to try and show any personal identity was to roll up skirts... add in a pair of over the knee black socks, a jumper or untucked shirt that comes down to the same level as the skirt and you can look like you're wearing a shirt and a pair of stockings...

In essence, we wanted to look like sex workers and glamour models. Or at least, like everyone else. (Despite at the same time NOT wanting to look as the school uniform guide wanted us to look... because who wants to all look the same UGH..)

We'd also compete to see whose hair could be the highest, whose odd fringey quiff bit could be the highest and whose perm could be the massivest...

Teenagers do not have the decision making and reasoning skills adults do. Which is why adults make the rules.

Schools should ditch skirts - give them a variety of trousers - unisex 'work place' trousers, joggers or leggings so no one feels they have to squeeze into something that reveals lumps and bumps if they don't want to. Make them all have to be black. End of botty flashing gusset waving problem.

That's funny because there's another thread going where male teachers were bending down to measure every girl in the schools skirt.

Poor blokes

With black near opaque tights, I can see you may have an argument.

But why would you buy your daughter a skirt that is short, tight and stretchy and send her to school in it in the first place?

Maybe the issue is a disconnect between what open minded parents think is appropriate school uniform, and what schools deem appropriate for the school.

There should be a single set of standard guidelines laid down for all schools so that there is no ambiguity.

Schools should be teaching the boys not to be creeps, rather than teaching girls they should cover up because creeps exist

This exactly!

I've seen school girls at my bus stop with the bottom of the skirt ending at half way down their bum. It doesn't end under their bum. It's higher up.

So you can see most of their bum cheeks. I've seen full bum cheeks when I get on the bus behind them. So teachers walking up the stairs behind these girls, see full bum cheeks too
A woman wrote further up this thread that she has seen full bum, when out walking too.

I hope the teachers get new rules in

Sack them.

Well I'm a woman and I feel uncomfortable if someone shows me their underwear, arse or genitals. That doesn't make me a pervert, and damn right it's down to them not to make me feel uncomfortable.

Are you implying that this has never happened or that there is an acceptable number? Otherwise I'm not sure why it matters.

The girls are not showing their genitals. Stop exaggerating.

How do some of you cope at the pool or the beach.

Before anyone says it, I know that school isn't the beach and therefore should be dressed formally. But there is wild exaggeration going on.

Aint gonna happen, and we all know it 🤷🏼‍♀️ I’ll be blamed for saying that though and ‘holding men to lower standards’, blah blah.

Its not just about safeguarding though.
Its also about common decency.

My dd’s school stopped the girls from wearing skorts a couple of years ago, saying in the letter to parents it was because it made the male teachers feel awkward.

I was raped wearing jeans and a baggy jumper and this was in the 90s so it wasn't skinny jeans either

And loads of Muslim women who wear modest clothing have come out over the last few years to speak about how they have been sexually assaulted and raped

Rape is about control not clothing