To think schoolgirls wearing exposing skirts isn’t a feminism issue but a safeguarding one?!

[Moonicorn]

Following on from the thread about skirt length inspections, AIBU to think stopping underage girls from revealing their underwear and bum cheeks to male teachers (or any teachers) isn’t ‘internalised misogyny’ but basic safeguarding?

Or am I just ‘not enlightened enough’ to understand that underage girls can expose what they want to grown men as long as they’re ‘happy and comfortable’ with it?

Disclaimer: I believe adult women can wear whatever TF they want and are not responsible for men’s reactions to them, but this is about children which is a different ball game.

Interested to know your thoughts!

Really? Because the OPs either second or third thread is specifically about the teachers checking the skirt lengths and she references the situation in her OP, and plenty of other posters have also talked about the school situation in this thread too

It's an open forum not a closed directed discussion group

Post sorry, the OPs second or third post not thread

Also if this thread isn't about the school who is protesting why are you even talking about the parents defending their children's right to wear what they like, that seems intrinsically linked to the protests

Why would anyone believe children have the right to wear what they like to school, as you put it?
Schools have dress codes, and OP suggests that miniskirts showing knickers and bum cheeks is a safe-guarding issue.

OP is not talking about knee length skirts here.

I was quoting you when I wrote that wording

Im too tired to argue with you because you don't like me referring to the reason this whole conversation started though

This issue could be completely obliterated if schools made trousers the only uniform bottom allowed, for both sexes. Removes the constant skirt length battles and removes the dramas of teenage boys rocking up to school in skirts because “it’s not fair girls can wear them when we can’t”

My own short skirt story is vaguely related to this. When I was a quiet nerdy girl in first year of high school, I was hauled before the deputy principal, along with four other girls, for the crime of having our skirts too short. It was a private school and had an in-house uniform shop where all uniform items had to be purchased. The deputy marched all of us to the uniform shop and said she would fit us out in new correct length skirts and add the cost to our parent’s account. I remember standing there, thinking this was going be the greatest moment of my life! Because unlike the other girls who had all taken their skirts up, might had been let down as far as it could go, because I was an incredibly skinny, over 6 ft tall 12 year-old. I knew the deputy could not possibly find a skirt that was longer than the one I had on, which had already been let down as far as possible. I was second up for the skirt fitting humiliation and it was so nice to watch her get furious as she realised that she had nowhere to go with me. So that is how I, the nerdiest of girls, was allowed to walk around at school from that time on in skirt well above the required minimum length. Sigh, I had such great legs back then too. It’s a nice memory for my overweight middle-aged self.

I liked having skirts at school. Why push a girls uniform item out because it's inconvenient to others. Measures could be put in place to better ensure no, or at least less, bums are hanging out at school.

Back when I went to school if your skirt was estimated to be more than two six inches above the knee you would be asked to change into our hideous school trousers or a super long skirt that the school somehow magically provided which also had to be washed by parents, an added shame that they found out what you'd got up to.

We therefore generally stuck to the rules until home time. Then we rolled the skirts back up. Afaik no one was harmed by our short skirt wearing antics though.

Liars, you mean? Why would.people lie about a thing like that? Girls do wear their skirts that short. If they are wearing a.blazer, some of then look as if they have forgotten to put on a skirt entirely. I often wonder why their mothers let their daughters out the door dressed as if auditioning for St. Trinians. But if cheap and nasty is the desired effect, so be it.

As a mother of a 6'3" daughter,I would never have found a knee length skirt , however, I bought the longest skirt in the range and my daughter still rolled it up en route to school. It was out of my hands at that point but I fully supported school telling her off for that and if she ever moaned about it I told her policy was policy and that she looked ridiculous with her skirt rolled up. I also remember being at school in the 80's and rolling my skirt but when told off, would happily roll it down again!! I was also over 6' and did not need to be rolling my skirt shorter!
I am not sure about compulsory trousers as there are some religious groups that might exclude.

We have two local schools (both do have the option of trousers if wanted) one of the schools has pencil skirts for the girls which must be rolled up by a lot of them before for some of the girls it does barely cover the bum. That is when schools would be right to clamp down (but even then just telling them to roll it down not taking humiliating methods like happening here)

the other has a pleated skirt which is pleated and the design makes it harder to roll up. Depending on the build of the girl it will sit anywhere from mid thigh to just below the knee. All perfectly acceptable and the school seemingly has no issue.

I can see you’re very dismissive of other women’s views on this. Why is that, do you think? It’s quite unusual for women not harmed by internalized misogyny to simply ‘blah blah blah’ away other women’s sincerely held views. Do you usually hear ‘blah blah blah’ when other women are speaking?

Are you able to explain what you mean by giving men ‘free rein’? In what way does what a child wears do this? Why do you see it as ‘different ‘ to suggesting that grown women deserve what they get if we wear short skirts?

So you condone her rolling her skirt up, even though you know it is wrong, because you did it yourself when you were her age? Isn’t that just bad parenting? Isn’t that what we are meant to learn in life, to correct the mistakes out parents made?

@WillowBeeT no, she's not condoning it at all. She's saying it's a thing many do and regardless of if she makes her leave the house with it correct, she cannot stop her rolling it up later on. She backs the school policy and tells her daughter to suck it up if she gets punished. How is that condoning?

@Ponderingwindow you're very welcome to come and look at my y11 class anytime if you think I'm lying. I kept all of the girls back last week to speak to them because every single one had their skirts rolled up. On occasion it's boys and scruffy ties, or untucked shirts but usually it's girls with their arses out, or 5 earrings in each ear, or orange make up.

Safeguarding? If the male teachers are distracted by bare legs of children then yes there is a safeguarding issue.
There’s an obvious solution for the school in question - allow girls to wear trousers as an option.
I look at the girls going to DS school and the majority have chosen trousers over skirts. Even in summer, though they do have shorts as an option too.

So I can understand some of the arguments for not wanting skirts up by their arses, but how on earth would having multiple piercings or being rubbish at applying make up impact their ability to learn?

For me we have to take the sex issue out of this and need to look at what is professional attire for the situation. People wear the right sports clothes to play sport, people wear wet weather gear in the rain - children need to wear appropriate clothes for school. To me saying its to avoid male teachers or male students doing X is just rubbish in this day and age because we are hopefully well past the point that females have to dress or not dress certain ways due to male's behaviour - and so this is all actually distracting from the real issue of appropriate uniform for school.
We live in the centre of a village with two high schools and I cringe when I see some of the short skirts the girls are wearing showing stocking gussets hanging down - sometimes they are even white gussets and I really feel like pulling my car over and saying do you know everyone can see your white gusset hanging lower than your skirt ..but I also know that would be worse as I would be making them feel ashamed.
So I think something does need to be done in schools with uniforms but what is happening at this high school is ridiculous. I feel so sorry for the kids preparing for gcse and a level exams at that school.

I think these girls need to take some responsibility and take awareness of how they are offending and impacting others.

I was at the bus stop yesterday. I saw schoolgirls. The skirts ended above the bum cheeks. I saw bum cheeks while I was just standing there. Two girls got in the bus in front of me. While they were standing two steps higher from me on the bus, it gave me and the ten people behind me a view of everything. I saw most of their bum and I could see most of their underwear.

I honestly felt sick. I don't want to be seeing anyone's bum or anyone's underwear.

We say that women should be able to wear what they want. That is an immature argument. No they shouldn't be able to wear what they want in every circumstances.

If we say men should be able to wear what they want:

Should a man be able to walk into a cafe showing his naked bottom?

Should my male boss at work be allowed to come in to work wearing hotpants that don't fully cover his ass cheeks. So I have to look at his ass cheeks all day?

I'll ask again

If the girls all wore shorts under their skirts would it be OK? Or if they always wore tights?

And if its really about protecting girls from sexualisation then surely we need to ban make up as well?

The world has gone to flames!

Open-mindedness, in the guise of empowerment, has caused some people brains to fall out.

Personally, I find it off-putting to talk about men when discussing women's clothing. Who cares? It's not about men but about decency.

Unless the environment calls for it (like swimming, etc), I wouldn't walk around in public flashing a part of my buttcheeks because it's simply indecent (regardless of who's around or not) and tasteless. I wouldn't let my little dc walk around flashing a part of his/her buttcheeks for the same reason. I wouldn't allow my teenager/school aged dc do the same for the exact same reason.

It's one rule for all and it really is a sensible thing to do.

But go empowerment! We should all be nudists actually. Saves us the discussion and outrage.

I am a feminist and believe women should wear what they like.
I also believe that wearing some clothing items will attract male attention and that there's nothing wrong with wanting to attracted male attention as consenting adults.

I live very close to a few secondary schools and the girls' uniform skirts are rolled so high that I regularly see the top (pant section) of their tights or sometimes their actual pants. I think if boys were dressed in a way that showed their pants, it would also be seen as unacceptable and a safe guarding issue.

The problem lies with why girls wear their skirts like this because it's not a new thing. School's should stop policing a uniform that isn't fit for purpose. Even in junior school's girls are issued with skirts which limit their play for doing handstands and generally sitting on the floor.

Uniforms should include well fitted, comfortable trousers for all shapes for girls. Not boys trousers that girls can wear if they want.

Not boys trousers that girls can wear if they want.

Why do they have to wear boys' trousers? Why can't they wear girls' trousers?

^^This. With the equivalent standard set for boys (and staff)

Back in the dark days when I was at school our uniform for both boys and girls was rigour sly scrutinised and enforced and girls had to kneel on the floor in the hall for female teachers to measure the length above the knee (no more than 3 inches)

Maybe it's schools with ridiculous logos on the trousers so it's one choice of skirt or boys' trousers with no girls' option. There should absolutely be a girls' option, and no bloody logos.