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AIBU?

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Original poster

Pronouns annoyance

377 replies

crochetmonkey74 · 23/02/2023 22:52

I support every human being having the right to be who they are. This is not a bashing thread but I do want views on this.
Today , my friend messaged something about a non binary celeb. I replied with "I like him I think he's great" she then sent a text lecture about misgendering.
I actually didn't do it deliberately. My thoughts are these though: how can you insist on how others (who you will never hear or even know about) talk about you?
I agree with referring to people however they want you to in real life of course, am I just being a grumpy old bag? I genuinely want to get better at understanding the pronoun thing. What are your thoughts?

OP posts:
Original poster
crochetmonkey74 · 23/02/2023 23:32

@PaigeMatthews I do actually, but ypu are clearly trying to make a point with each reply being a new question. I'd rather discuss more freely and exchange ideas

OP posts:
adriftabroad · 23/02/2023 23:32

I am identifying as a man tomorrow.
I will give it a go.

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 23/02/2023 23:33

PaigeMatthews · 23/02/2023 23:29

Whats the difference?

Show quote history

Well, I can look that up for you and save you the bother.

Please hold for a moment….
….click…
….ok thank you for your patience.

The UK government definition is here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/whatisthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21

Frankldearest · 23/02/2023 23:33

I suspect much of the pleasure comes from the sheer entitlement of demanding that everyone who ever mentions you has to pause for a few seconds while they struggle to remember what pronouns you demand of people. It's a bit like demanding that everyone pauses and bows to the ground each time your name is mentioned.

adriftabroad · 23/02/2023 23:34

It is truly a great decade to be alive.

PaigeMatthews · 23/02/2023 23:34

crochetmonkey74 · 23/02/2023 23:32

@PaigeMatthews I do actually, but ypu are clearly trying to make a point with each reply being a new question. I'd rather discuss more freely and exchange ideas

And what are you here for op?

you said you support the RIGHTS. I asked what you meant. I asked what rights. How do you support them. You've not said. You just keep waffling nonsense.

MichaelFabricantWig · 23/02/2023 23:34

I’d have told her to piss off and that as a fluent speaker of English, I decide what is appropriate language to use in any given situation.

Dita73 · 23/02/2023 23:34

Got to be Sam Smith. Causing a lot of debate at the moment

Original poster
crochetmonkey74 · 23/02/2023 23:36

PaigeMatthews · 23/02/2023 23:34

And what are you here for op?

you said you support the RIGHTS. I asked what you meant. I asked what rights. How do you support them. You've not said. You just keep waffling nonsense.

Show quote history

OK don't engage with my waffle then chat to someone else

OP posts:
BetterArf · 23/02/2023 23:36

I hope this pronouns fad will die out eventually. It’s tedious.

‘Misgendering’ being bandied about like it’s a dreadful crime - ridiculous. The fact is most people look at Sam Smith and see him for what he is - a bloke - then try to remember what mangled nonsensical version of language they’re supposed to use to describe they/them.

Emperor’s New Clothes. We all know the truth, but we are BAD PEOPLE if we don’t lie about it.

Messyhair321 · 23/02/2023 23:36

I don't have an issue with pronouns but I think it's easy to make a mistake & no-one should berate you for this.
I do have an issue with people who become conceited with banging on about the right use of pronouns or anything else for that matter, that removes real connection or communication, so that it all just becomes about this.
it is all consuming within our culture at the moment, the pendulum will swing & become more balanced & accepted at some point.

adriftabroad · 23/02/2023 23:36

@PaigeMatthews are you OK? Are you going through something?

Original poster
crochetmonkey74 · 23/02/2023 23:38

Messyhair321 · 23/02/2023 23:36

I don't have an issue with pronouns but I think it's easy to make a mistake & no-one should berate you for this.
I do have an issue with people who become conceited with banging on about the right use of pronouns or anything else for that matter, that removes real connection or communication, so that it all just becomes about this.
it is all consuming within our culture at the moment, the pendulum will swing & become more balanced & accepted at some point.

I totally agree with this.

OP posts:
PaigeMatthews · 23/02/2023 23:38

adriftabroad · 23/02/2023 23:36

@PaigeMatthews are you OK? Are you going through something?

Reality. Where is your head?

Psychosocial · 23/02/2023 23:38

People getting so mad over using the pronoun someone would like you to use is hilarious and just so OTT.

If you meet someone and refer to them as her or he, and they say, "actually, I prefer to be referred to as they", I bet none of you would laugh in their face and say no, you're clearly a her/he, I will only refer to you as that. I bet you'd do it out of politeness.

And if you would laugh in their face, you're a cunt.

There's absolutely no harm referring to someone with their chosen pronouns, it doesn't hurt you or affect your life in any way but it can make a big difference to someone else.

I wouldn't lecture someone on it via social media but having basic respect to refer to someone how they have asked you to is really not that difficult.

jcyclops · 23/02/2023 23:40

Years ago, use of plural pronouns for one person was called the majestic plural. Queen Victoria would have ended her messages with SHE WE, which unfortunately brings a certain product to mind.

Does this mean that people who insist on they/them are Queens?

Frankldearest · 23/02/2023 23:40

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 23/02/2023 23:29

Good for you. You’re the majority and you have it very easy. Great. Some - a tiny minority of people - don’t.

Show quote history

What do you mean? Everyone feels like themselves, by definition. And no man can feel like a woman, because by definition only a woman is able to feel like one. What makes a man assume that what he feels like is what any women feel like? He's never been inside any woman's head. Why isn't he simply a man who feels interested in women's fashion and make-up and doesn't like playing rugby, for example?

Original poster
crochetmonkey74 · 23/02/2023 23:40

Psychosocial · 23/02/2023 23:38

People getting so mad over using the pronoun someone would like you to use is hilarious and just so OTT.

If you meet someone and refer to them as her or he, and they say, "actually, I prefer to be referred to as they", I bet none of you would laugh in their face and say no, you're clearly a her/he, I will only refer to you as that. I bet you'd do it out of politeness.

And if you would laugh in their face, you're a cunt.

There's absolutely no harm referring to someone with their chosen pronouns, it doesn't hurt you or affect your life in any way but it can make a big difference to someone else.

I wouldn't lecture someone on it via social media but having basic respect to refer to someone how they have asked you to is really not that difficult.

Agreed. I would never do this in person, in the same way I wouldn't use a shortened name if they hated it etc etc
It's the using it privately when they wouldn't know that has me thinking.

OP posts:
youshouldnthaveasked · 23/02/2023 23:40

When Sam Smith said “I like to be referred to as a fisher’them’ that was completely ridiculous and grammatically incorrect.

The equivalent in binary language would be fisher him or fisher her which is complete nonsense

MichaelFabricantWig · 23/02/2023 23:40

Psychosocial · 23/02/2023 23:38

People getting so mad over using the pronoun someone would like you to use is hilarious and just so OTT.

If you meet someone and refer to them as her or he, and they say, "actually, I prefer to be referred to as they", I bet none of you would laugh in their face and say no, you're clearly a her/he, I will only refer to you as that. I bet you'd do it out of politeness.

And if you would laugh in their face, you're a cunt.

There's absolutely no harm referring to someone with their chosen pronouns, it doesn't hurt you or affect your life in any way but it can make a big difference to someone else.

I wouldn't lecture someone on it via social media but having basic respect to refer to someone how they have asked you to is really not that difficult.

Why would you refer to someone using a third person pronoun when talking to them face to face?

Psychosocial · 23/02/2023 23:41

BetterArf · 23/02/2023 23:36

I hope this pronouns fad will die out eventually. It’s tedious.

‘Misgendering’ being bandied about like it’s a dreadful crime - ridiculous. The fact is most people look at Sam Smith and see him for what he is - a bloke - then try to remember what mangled nonsensical version of language they’re supposed to use to describe they/them.

Emperor’s New Clothes. We all know the truth, but we are BAD PEOPLE if we don’t lie about it.

What's so hard about remembering "them" rather than "him"? How is "mangled non sensical version of language" to use a very commonly used pronoun when referring to someone?

I mean, imagine being this upset about someone being non binary. Insane.

sleepwouldbenice · 23/02/2023 23:41

Messyhair321 · 23/02/2023 23:36

I don't have an issue with pronouns but I think it's easy to make a mistake & no-one should berate you for this.
I do have an issue with people who become conceited with banging on about the right use of pronouns or anything else for that matter, that removes real connection or communication, so that it all just becomes about this.
it is all consuming within our culture at the moment, the pendulum will swing & become more balanced & accepted at some point.

Exactly this
Someone on here likened it to calling King Charles still prince Charles, it's what we are used to and it will take time to adjust and we'll sometimes, even with best intentions, get it wrong
Especially with them/ they

MsJD · 23/02/2023 23:42

This must have been how it sounded decades ago when people would loudly say things like "I don't mind people being gay, but they should keep it secret and confine it to their bedroom"

Decades ago? This is more or less what Putin said earlier this week.

StopitSarah · 23/02/2023 23:42

I’m tired and grumpy. But for anyone who actually believes this utter bullshit, it’s good to be reminded that the vast majority of people do not see trans men as actual men or trans women as actual women. People will generally be polite and smile. But they don’t see you as a “real” man/woman/non binary unicorn.

I know a trans man who gave birth to twins. She’s a biological woman with short hair who wears (small) mens clothes who gave birth to twins. We all see her as that. We are polite, she’s a nice person. I play along and call her he/him but in no way is she a man in reality or in my mind.

Im really looking forward to a time when this phase is over and people are given the help they need to live healthy lives in their own bodies being whatever sort of man or woman they choose to be.

We can’t change our sex.

MichaelFabricantWig · 23/02/2023 23:43

There's absolutely no harm referring to someone with their chosen pronouns, it doesn't hurt you or affect your life in any way but it can make a big difference to someone else

I disagree. It is harmful to expect people to lie in the name of “being kind”. Also, if one meets multiple people who wish pronouns to be used which don’t correspond with their sex, it may be difficult to keep track of.