Pronouns annoyance

[crochetmonkey74]

I support every human being having the right to be who they are. This is not a bashing thread but I do want views on this.
Today , my friend messaged something about a non binary celeb. I replied with "I like him I think he's great" she then sent a text lecture about misgendering.
I actually didn't do it deliberately. My thoughts are these though: how can you insist on how others (who you will never hear or even know about) talk about you?
I agree with referring to people however they want you to in real life of course, am I just being a grumpy old bag? I genuinely want to get better at understanding the pronoun thing. What are your thoughts?

If your identity doesn't work without the input of others then the problem is not whether or not people use the pronouns of your choice its the ideology you are believing in.

Someone who is black or gay or whatever will still be so alone in a dark room with no one pointing it out being a part of it.

Being trans doesn't work unless others are involved.

That's the difference.

Compelled speech and gaslighting is not a reasonable adjustment. Its narcissism and entitlement and I say NO. Your identity is not my problem.

scared this makes me transphobic

Why is it important to you not to be transphobic?

It's not.misgendered so much as accurately sexed. Pronouns have nothing to do with identity for most people. Trying to change their usage to some ethereal undefined identity waffle and then having a go at people who point out the harm that causes can really only be done by a special kind of arsehole or their unthinking accolades.

Bless you OP, didn’t you know everything is transphobic Everything is transphobic

don’t think men should be in women’s prisons or women’s refuges or in women’s sport? You’re a big old transphobe!

Because I want to support people. I don't want people to be uncomfortable. I know 3 transpeople in my real life (all lovely people and very down to earth etc)

Ah I get you- all words are meaningless and can just be changed on a whim. If all words are meaningless why do people get so upset if people call Sam Smith “he” surely it’s just a word with a fluent meaning? Presumably I can decide myself what a word means? I mean the downside the whole system of communication built up over thousands of years collapses but heh ho, at least I’m being respected- but then I could change the meaning of respect to “behaving like an absolute twat”. Maybe I could change the word “transgender” to be a synonym for “unicorn”. Actually this is fun, let’s undermine the whole English language

Some people on this thread don't seem to realise that this is what they advocate for, and because this behaviour is about control, the type of people drawn to it are always going to want to go that bit further. At what point does it become unreasonable not to participate?

Pity the poor Early Years practitioners attempting the teaching of pronouns. It will be like teaching RE, 'Some people believe...'

Supporting people doesn't mean saying what they want to hear all the time regardless of how difficult or uncomfortable it is for you.

You dont owe them your eyes ears and speech. Stop handing over control to people who, if they actually cared about you would never have asked for or involved u in.

but I guess I think that non binary isn't really valid?

Well no. In what way would it be "valid"?

Do you also want to support the women who've lost places in sports teams because they went to biological males? Do you want to support women who want a female only rape support group?

Using a racist slur doesn’t become ok if you do it privately to a white friend.

As I said earlier, calling someone by the correct sex based pronoun isn't a racist slur, or anything like one. What a ridiculous comparison. I don't believe in your stereotype based ideology, I think it's harmful and regressive and I won't participate.

Thankfully not where yours is paigey pants.

OP I haven't read the full thread and got fed up with the nonsense that was being replied to you.
I don't think you are unreasonable at all. If someone asked me to refer to them as they them I would try my best and respect it but if I slip up and say oh he him she her I'd expect some slack as this whole non binary is alien to the majority of us. I genuinely believe that you cannot identify as nothing ffs. We are born male or female. If someone wishes to change sex they should be supported but I will not support someone's sex change due to fads and fashion. What is happening to our kids and society is a disgrace, they don't know whether they are coming or going, literally.

Don't anyone reply with stupid nonsense to my post either lol.

I'm loving the poem Spanish girl. X

It's not possible to change sex no matter how much someone might wish they could

No, those things are when we need to consider that third classification I think. I'm curious as to why that isn't an option

Non binary is alien because it’s attention seeking bullshit mostly practised by over privileged, attention seeking, pain in the arse adults - hello Sam smith & Emma corrin - and confused teenagers struggling with puberty & society’s imposition of gendered roles on them

Your suggestion here means many people will consider you transphobic. Any position other than any male who says he's a woman can get free access to all women's spaces is transphobic. There is no reasonable way to avoid being branded as such by those who use the term as a way to try and shut women up.

No, those things are when we need to consider that third classification I think. I'm curious as to why that isn't an option

It's not feminists who have ruled that out in terms of women's single sex spaces. Ask some trans activists, I'm sure they'll be happy to help put you in the picture.

you are indeed very late to the party on this @crochetmonkey74

women said repeatedly that third spaces were the way forward but were told there was “no debate”, to beeeee kiiiind, that we were terfs bigots Karen’s & hags and to welcome our erasure

you see the thing is, it’s not the space, it’s the women in the space. Without the women, the space is meaningless because there’s no validation.

Non binary cant even exist as a term really. Its addition either makes it a third option in which case its non trinary not non binary . Or it puts you into 2 categories, binary and non binary which makes you binary again.

So its grammatically nonsense really.

Oh god does it ?

Because it is transphobic. If you are suggesting a third space then you are also saying you dont believe that people can change sex.

why do you think there is a need for a third space if a man who says he is a woman is now a woman?

if pronouns are enforced and you support men is saying they are now women, you cannot then dictate when they are ‘women’.

amazed this thread is still here tbh.

If Stonewall had spent the past few years campaigning for safe third spaces and extra categories in sporting events everything would be different. They had enough money that practically every bloody public building in the U.K. could have an extra loo.
Sports would have ‘Open’ and ‘women’ categories. Prisons would have special wings (on the correct estate for the sex.)
There would be shiny new Rape counselling centres.
I could go on. I too would be very interested to hear why SW (and similar organisations) didn’t go down this route.

But basically it’s because something sensible like that that catered for both women and trans people wasn’t an option.

There is a LOT of misogyny in gender ideology. It’s bullshit to say that women are some kind of privileged group and should ‘be kind’. Women are the oppressed group, the group most vulnerable to assault and discrimination on the basis of their sex.

I doubt anybody does think that. But it doesn't mean your friend as the recipient of the message in question is wrong to pull you up on it. If someone wrote to me about a well known woman constantly referring to her as "he" or "it" I would be judging the writer, and not particularly favourably.

OK, am following that logic so far but as in the PPs point I was replying to , what do you do about the sport issue? I'm thinking about trans women with obvious weight in strength advantage etc. Do you classify by size and weight instead like In boxing?
I really do appreciate people talking about these things. I have gaps In my thinking that I want to fill in

If someone wrote to me about a well known woman constantly referring to her as "he" or "it"

Again, that's not what's happening. Why do you think you need to pretend something absurd is happening to make your point more reasonable?