Pronouns annoyance

[crochetmonkey74]

I support every human being having the right to be who they are. This is not a bashing thread but I do want views on this.
Today , my friend messaged something about a non binary celeb. I replied with "I like him I think he's great" she then sent a text lecture about misgendering.
I actually didn't do it deliberately. My thoughts are these though: how can you insist on how others (who you will never hear or even know about) talk about you?
I agree with referring to people however they want you to in real life of course, am I just being a grumpy old bag? I genuinely want to get better at understanding the pronoun thing. What are your thoughts?

Yes OP, I totally agree!! This is why I LOATHE with a passion Sam Smith. It’s so attention seeking! Call yourself whatever you want but don’t expect me to enter into your delusions.

Also those people on Teams calls who start off with ‘Hi, I’m Paul, he/him pronouns’. I actually cringe for them 😆 😳 The first time a bloke did it I burst out laughing (on mute/off camera thankfully)

I don’t believe in it either.

People who believe in Gender ideology are like people with strong religious beliefs. I wouldn’t be disparaging about it to their face, but if I don’t share their beliefs I’m not going to pretend to either.

I don’t mind it adults like to pretend they have changed sex or somehow are neither sex but it’s their belief system, not mine.

How can they enforce that? It’s encouraged where we are but I refuse point blank to do it.

Your friend is being a bit silly. There was no need to give you a lecture.

If you’re opposed to it then stop doing it.

If it's so important to use people's preferred pronouns - even when they're not there - then the pronouns must signify something.

What precisely do they signify?

Why is it transphobia to refer to a man who dresses and lives as a woman as 'he'? I have no problem with a man living as a woman but he is not a woman. Surely we should be more tolerant of him and his lifestyle rather than pretending he is actually she.

I agree with this. It reminds of the viral photo a couple of years ago on what colour the dress was, where some people saw a blue dress and others saw a gold one. It was impossible to see the dress as the opposite colour to what you saw as your brain just didn’t allow it to.

Similarly when a person presents (to me) as one sex I can’t somehow switch my brain to view them as the opposite sex, even if that’s how they want to be seen. That’s not how our brains work, and I think it can be damaging to try and force your brain into believing something it simply doesn’t believe.

Names are personal, and I'll call you whatever name you tell me. Pronouns are based on what we observe people to be. Sam Smith is a man, ergo 'he/him'.

If your friend wants to call Sam Smith 'they/them', that's her business. She has no right to impose her belief system on you. Further, what you call Smith in a private message has no bearing on his life.

I'm sorry I haven't rtft but I'm fascinated to know why your friend felt compelled to lecture you. I find it really bizarre.

We're are quite yet in a totalitarian state where speech can legally be compelled (for the most part).

Oh, and because apparently it's not obvious to some posters: pronouns are not comparable to racist slurs! Good lord! Argue your point, but please do it honestly and in good faith.

Absolutely this. This is what it originally meant to be gender-critical - to believe that no one has to feel bound by the restrictive, regressive stereotypes associated with their sex, and that those stereotypes have no place in a progressive society striving for male / female equality.

Gender ideology reinforces those stereotypes. Where feminism says “just because you’re a boy it doesn’t mean you can’t wear dresses and play with dolls if you prefer”, GI says “you like wearing dresses and playing with dolls? Then you’re a girl!” Reductive, regressive, harmful to children’s natural development and often driven by homophobic attitudes (consciously or subconsciously) which is why the tired, hyperbolic “it’s the same as hating gay rights” trope is so inaccurate.

A name is just a name. Biological sex is a reality.

What does living as a woman mean?

There was someone on a cruise forum the other day who was trans saying that they had worn a badge all holiday with their pronouns. They were moaning about how some people were staring!!!

there’s just a complete lack of self awareness with these people. It is fundamentally a control thing. I can make you say something that goes against your brain.

I just refuse to play their control game. - Although considering wearing a badge that says God next holiday.,it aligns with my belief system will insist everyone uses it - will attend the worship service for extra kicks and interchange with Jesus on sea days.

Supporting an ideology which oppresses women is not common courtesy. Common courtesy would actually be a man not trying to get people to pretend he's anything other.

Ooh I see the trans ideology has now moved on from just using the redundant comparisons of race and gay rights and now moved on to also comparing with mental illness (although obviously it isn’t one🙄)

it’s like they think we can’t actually see what they’re doing.

And now a university in the UK is telling students to use "they" pronouns for everyone, until everyone has told them what pronouns they want to be used for them. There is no end to the purity spiral.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/university-of-kent-calls-for-use-of-gender-neutral-pronouns-mw0xsn25m

Has any official list been issued on which people demand special pronouns? Should it be compulsory that we check it for updates weekly?

Or do I have to research every person in the world before I accidentally misgender then?

I mean if I was friends with Sam smith I'd try and use their pronouns. But they are just one of millions of strangers to me, who has the bandwidth to remember all that information.

I refuse to use pronouns incorrectly. It’s the ‘be kind’ start of a slope that ends with saying rapists can be in women’s prisons or men can compete in women’s sport.
If I was talking to a trans person directly I would be careful to refer to them by their name, and would be mindful of not causing offence (unless I felt they were aggressive and disrespectful of women and their rights in being case no… your correct pronouns it is!)
But I’ll refer to anyone by their correct sex outside of their presence whether I like them or not.
I’m done with this harmful, regressive bullshit. DONE.
And compelled speech is offensive to me so what about my ‘rights and lived experience’ to feel that way?

I've not compared it to mental illness. What makes you say that?

It's really offensive to me if you assume I've got regressive ideas about men and women - which is what 'they' signifies. They're just moving the offense caused to be directed at a more vulnerable group (women)

‘Literal violence’ is women being assaulted in prisons by men and also in single sex spaces, which are no longer safe because anyone can say they’re a woman - including ‘Isla Bryson’.

Being misgendered- accidentally or otherwise- is not ‘literal violence’.

Thanks all. Just catching up after falling asleep last night.
I think my thoughts are developing to understand that it's the non binary that caused me the annoyance. I wouldn't deliberately misgender anyone, but I guess I think that non binary isn't really valid? I need to read more about it I think as I'm scared this makes me transphobic

Every time we call a man 'she/her' we are disrespecting women.

Someone voluntarily offering up their pronouns (eg not coerced by their employer) tells me all I need to know about them - and it's not their gender