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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Just out of parents night - 11 years new novel is about a boy who wants to be a girl

346 replies

Workingmomof2 · 22/02/2023 17:54

And the teacher was talking about it as a great book. I’m seriously not happy. Would I be unreasonable to raise this with the school. Why is this kind of idea even introduced to our children so young. No wonder they are all so confused.

OP posts:
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Nooyoiknooyoik · 22/02/2023 18:32

In the book, George wants to play the lead female role in the school play but the teacher says only girls can play it and gives the role to George’s female friend, (who, presumably, also really wants it).

But on the night of the play the friend gives the role to George cos she’s kind.

KrisAkabusi · 22/02/2023 18:33

We all survived reading The Famous Five. An ongoing theme of every one of the books was how George wanted to be a boy. I don't recall anyone's mind being warped by that!

Needmorelego · 22/02/2023 18:33

To add to my post my daughter wasn't really interested in reading the sequel where George is now Melissa.
I remember the story being more about why a girl 'must' play a female character in a play - why can't a boy do it.
It was about 5 years ago we read the book (I read it with her) so I might be remembering wrong.

BetterArf · 22/02/2023 18:34

Nooyoiknooyoik · 22/02/2023 18:32

In the book, George wants to play the lead female role in the school play but the teacher says only girls can play it and gives the role to George’s female friend, (who, presumably, also really wants it).

But on the night of the play the friend gives the role to George cos she’s kind.

good practice for giving up her sports trophies, women in industry awards and dignity/privacy/safety for the rest of her life 👍

MMAMPWGHAP · 22/02/2023 18:34

ourflagmeansdeath · 22/02/2023 18:31

No oh dear lord. Obviously it isn't okay for a person to just socially transition yet somehow be allowed to change next to the biological sex. When was that said?? That is horrible and the biological sex's needs should be taken into account.

As for the one about only wanting to be a different sex due to the stereotpyes based on the other gender, well that's just frankly ridiculous. It is so much more than that. You're very uneducated.

Who is the uneducated one?

OMG12 · 22/02/2023 18:34

Uptownswirl · 22/02/2023 17:59

instill critical thinking skills in your child and they can read absolutely anything and not be overly influenced by it. Encourage him to read it and pull it apart.

critical thinking is a life skill anyway so I can't see anyone objecting to this route

Absolutely this. Use it as a discussion point regarding how some people are batshit crazy, how society uses lots of different media to try and normalise abnormal positions. Who would want to do that and why.

Discuss why certain groups that want to normalise situations target young people.

discuss how religious indoctrination doesn’t need a recognised religion.

Discuss what affect this new religion has on women, using recent examples from the news

Discuss the kind of people who might be drawn to this ideology

Discuss the witch hunts that have occurred throughout history and the ones that are happening against women like JK Rowling

I agree with the teacher- bloody brilliant book but I would be making sure the lessons my child learned from it weren’t mermaid approved

thirteenfiftyeight · 22/02/2023 18:36

@ourflagmeansdeath Don't see how this affects how gender dysphoria is NOT a mental illness,

What is it then?

MaggieMagpie357 · 22/02/2023 18:36

@PriOn1 wow. Not every person experiencing gender dysphoria is "jumping on a bandwagon" you know. You do realise that because of attitudes like this, some people are still afraid to be themselves? Or explore what their lives might be like if they didn't have to live in fear of being judged and persecuted?

I will never, ever understand how people can be so judgmental, when how someone else lives their life is of absolutely no concern to anyone else.

bellac11 · 22/02/2023 18:37

ourflagmeansdeath · 22/02/2023 18:31

No oh dear lord. Obviously it isn't okay for a person to just socially transition yet somehow be allowed to change next to the biological sex. When was that said?? That is horrible and the biological sex's needs should be taken into account.

As for the one about only wanting to be a different sex due to the stereotpyes based on the other gender, well that's just frankly ridiculous. It is so much more than that. You're very uneducated.

Havent you been reading the news at all. This is exactly what social transitioning means, of both children and adults and the biological sex views are not taken into account (aka women).
Social transitions (changing pronouns, gender identity and names) is an intervention, just because its not a physical or medical intervention doesnt mean it doesnt have any power to it. Its dangerous because it reinforces sexist stereotypes about sex.

PriOn1 · 22/02/2023 18:37

ourflagmeansdeath · 22/02/2023 18:28

No, I do agree with the fact that children should never be allowed to medically transition. It can be highly dangerous and should be a very well thought out decision. Don't see how this affects how gender dysphoria is NOT a mental illness, and also don't see how this affects why kids can't just know that trans people are there.

Pretty sure in time, it will return to being seen as the mental illness it is. Huge distress because you feel there is something wrong with your body (when there is nothing physically wrong with it) is surely, by definition, a mental illness.

I’m not sure how we got to a place where anyone thinks it’s normal. In all other circumstances, psychiatrists and other medical professionals dealing with psychiatric illness are taught that if someone believes they are something they are not, they should never be affirmed in that false belief, yet girls are being told they are boys, if that’s how they feel. It has no similarity whatsoever to falling in love with someone of the same sex. They have been falsely linked, but sexuality and feeling like you are the opposite sex are wholly different. However much hormone you pump in, girls are not boys and never can be.

stbrandonsboat · 22/02/2023 18:37

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Ludo19 · 22/02/2023 18:38

mamabear715 · 22/02/2023 17:59

I wouldn't be happy either.
Kids seem to be getting this stuff thrown at them right, left & centre. :-(
Let them just be KIDS, for Heaven's sake..

This 100%

Untitledsquatboulder · 22/02/2023 18:38

ourflagmeansdeath · 22/02/2023 18:31

No oh dear lord. Obviously it isn't okay for a person to just socially transition yet somehow be allowed to change next to the biological sex. When was that said?? That is horrible and the biological sex's needs should be taken into account.

As for the one about only wanting to be a different sex due to the stereotpyes based on the other gender, well that's just frankly ridiculous. It is so much more than that. You're very uneducated.

I'm asking seriously but what more is there? If a man identifies as a woman what exactly he identifying as? If a woman isn't a biological entity then what else is left but stereotypes?

thirteenfiftyeight · 22/02/2023 18:38

As for the one about only wanting to be a different sex due to the stereotpyes based on the other gender, well that's just frankly ridiculous. It is so much more than that. You're very uneducated.

Why do they want to be a different sex then? I'm interested to know what you actually think about this because everything I've ever seen or read has been based on gender stereotypes. Everything.

OMG12 · 22/02/2023 18:38

BetterArf · 22/02/2023 18:34

good practice for giving up her sports trophies, women in industry awards and dignity/privacy/safety for the rest of her life 👍

Fucking hell, the thought police have really captured the ideology here haven’t they - yes little woman give up everything you have worked for and deserve because #bekind the man wants it.

a trans woman is male privilege in a pretty frock

GrammarTeacher · 22/02/2023 18:39

It's a great book
Anyone thinking Boy in Striped Pyjamas would be a better choice should check out what the Holocaust Memorial Trust have to say about it.
Students aren't really influenced by what they read in school that way. Thankfully given that I'm currently teaching Macbeth which many primary schools also introduce their students too!

Isthisexpected · 22/02/2023 18:39

I'd rather a book about a boy who is experiencing difficulties related to racism not something impacting 0.5% of the West.

PotKettel · 22/02/2023 18:40

@ididntwanttodoit are you joking? These are primary school kids. There is NO WAY all the kids will be able to benefit from a critique of the book even if the teacher had the time, aptitude or inclination to lead them through it . My 12 year old is “more able” but could not even tell you what an ideology is. Kids read a small number of books in school together - there are a million books i would rather the teacher chose than something so controversial.

These kids as a group simply won’t have the faculties to understand what messages they can take from this book as “unquestionably true”. The book will doubtless be presented sympathetically to George which is fine, but I bet the school wouldn’t read a sequel where George is 16, has changed their mind, and has to handle attempts to repair the impact of hormone treatment. Or George stays in his new gender, completes a medical transition
and years later can’t reproduce and is bitterly disappointed that they hadn’t anticipated age 11 or 18 that one day they would want children.

ourflagmeansdeath · 22/02/2023 18:40

bellac11 · 22/02/2023 18:37

Havent you been reading the news at all. This is exactly what social transitioning means, of both children and adults and the biological sex views are not taken into account (aka women).
Social transitions (changing pronouns, gender identity and names) is an intervention, just because its not a physical or medical intervention doesnt mean it doesnt have any power to it. Its dangerous because it reinforces sexist stereotypes about sex.

Yes, quite aware that's what social transitioning is. That's why I said if you are just socially trans you shouldn't be explicitly allowed into biological women only areas. I personally don't see how just changing pronouns and names does anything really, it doesn't affect you. I know a few trans males who still present themselves very feminine.

I am interested on how it reinforces sexist sterotypes about sex? Why do you believe that?

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 22/02/2023 18:40

My 11 yo DS has a trans girl in his class. They come back from lockdown with a new name and wearing a skirt. Even though most of the girls wear trousers.

My DC know that people can't change sex. But I am very open to discussing trans people etc. Use it to open a conversation

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 22/02/2023 18:41

thirteenfiftyeight · 22/02/2023 18:22

Comparing the recent trans movement to the prejudice gay people suffered is really homophobic

This. It makes me cringe every time I see it as someone's very weak argument.

thirteenfiftyeight · 22/02/2023 18:42

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 22/02/2023 18:40

My 11 yo DS has a trans girl in his class. They come back from lockdown with a new name and wearing a skirt. Even though most of the girls wear trousers.

My DC know that people can't change sex. But I am very open to discussing trans people etc. Use it to open a conversation

Of course they have to wear a skirt! Cos females wear skirts don't they! And they like pink and pretty things

NeedToChangeName · 22/02/2023 18:42

Nooyoiknooyoik · 22/02/2023 18:32

In the book, George wants to play the lead female role in the school play but the teacher says only girls can play it and gives the role to George’s female friend, (who, presumably, also really wants it).

But on the night of the play the friend gives the role to George cos she’s kind.

@Nooyoiknooyoik In other words, boy's preference takes priority over girl's wishes. Again. This isn't something to celebrate, IMHO

BetterArf · 22/02/2023 18:42

@MaggieMagpie357

”I will never, ever understand how people can be so judgmental, when how someone else lives their life is of absolutely no concern to anyone else.”

Except it is of serious concern to me, as a parent and educator, that gender ideology is being pushed on our children by schools in the curriculum. It DOES effect children, all children.

And it isn’t in any way progressive to me. It’s sinister. It puts ideas that are not true (that you can ‘change sex’) into children's heads and it grooms children into believing that because they don’t fit narrow gender stereotypes there is something wrong with them that needs changing or fixing. It’s majorly creepy.

It also teaches girls that if a boy says he is a girl you have to be kind and accept it, unquestioningly, including him being in your toilets and changing rooms and sports teams etc, or you will be vilified and branded a bigot.

Fuck all that.

bellac11 · 22/02/2023 18:43

PriOn1 · 22/02/2023 18:37

Pretty sure in time, it will return to being seen as the mental illness it is. Huge distress because you feel there is something wrong with your body (when there is nothing physically wrong with it) is surely, by definition, a mental illness.

I’m not sure how we got to a place where anyone thinks it’s normal. In all other circumstances, psychiatrists and other medical professionals dealing with psychiatric illness are taught that if someone believes they are something they are not, they should never be affirmed in that false belief, yet girls are being told they are boys, if that’s how they feel. It has no similarity whatsoever to falling in love with someone of the same sex. They have been falsely linked, but sexuality and feeling like you are the opposite sex are wholly different. However much hormone you pump in, girls are not boys and never can be.

Agree

And Im not sure how it became termed 'gender dysphoria' either when surely its body dysmorphia given that gender is not a real thing, its something you make up in your head. So you've made something up about yourself in your head (I must wear trousers and enjoy football) but I dont agree with that because I want to wear sparkles and lipstick so Im suffering dysphoria from that?

It literally makes no sense.

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